I wish I knew how to characterize the play from an ICM perspective, but I don't.

However, sitting in BB's shoes, I'd call with his hand too.

It would look to me like SB was trying to isolate BTN. In other words, it would look to me like SB didn't want me (BB) to continue. In general it's not a bad idea to do what your opponent doesn't want you to do, especially with a very decent hand, such as BB holds here. And I neither want SB getting all of BTN's chips here nor half of my blind.

Ergo, sitting in BB's shoes, I'd call with his hand too.


Buzz

3way AI in O8 are insanly complex, due to the gazillion possible outcomes.
If BU folded I would agree its a tough fold, but with BU AI I think it might be closer
to a call.

@Buzz AI instead of a call is the standart in such a spot, you can't read anything
about his hand into it!

It's very close but I would tend to call. Prob folding an even slightly worse hand though.

Where did you get this from Macr0s?

cheers Bob

BB goes all-in when he to calls SB's raise.

I wrote that's what I'd do too.

It's not AI instead of a call. Making the call is going AI.

Buzz

@ Angri, from my own O8 ICM Calculator.

Buzz sometimes I really wonder what you are talking about...
I obviously was refering to your comment about SB. IMO SB plays 100% as
a push and 0% as a call.

Woah...why are you playing poker? Shouldn't you be designing rockets or something?

unless i have very special notes(probably only 2-3 players) i call in a second.

Get in line.

It seems we're on different wavelengths.

I was referring to laughing gravy's post #1048 in this thread. (I quoted it for clarity).

I see what you're saying (I think).

I guess you're saying it shouldn't look to me like SB was trying to isolate BTN because an all-in shove is standard with anything in this tournament situation. I've played some no-limit Omaha-8 tournaments and that's not my experience.

I agree with you that some fools do play that way, but my experience is they didn't often (or ever) get to the final table of a no-limit tournament in which I was participating playing that way.

In other words, unless I thought SB was a fool, I'd still think SB was trying to isolate BTN and didn't want me (BB) to continue.

Buzz

I think with these stack sizes i think hero is best just calling rather than trying to isolate. It gives hero flop options that he wouldn't usually have if the BB decides to just flat call.

With any decent hand a re shove from hero is correct imo. If you call and BB calls you can't fold any flop anyway.

Call seems to be the consensus here with some close calls (Brunolf is the only one that advocates a fold).

I'm far from a nit but I stick with close fold.

well you can.

if you have ALLL and it comes KQJ

or

a2310 and it comes 999

What does a reshove achieve that a preflop calls doesn't? Its exactly the same thing but it gives you options later on in the hand. The BB if calls is limited to what he can post flop which lets us play perfectly.

assuming your good enough to play perfectly that is

Thanks for the reply, it's great to debate these things.

If you check flop and BB shoves you're getting 4\1 to call , so now what?

I think it avoids the mess above. It's a bit like calling with AK in NL, your hand plays better seeing all 5 cards (shove) and you have fold equity.

Its a simple fold, its a dry side pot and villain is never ever bluffing. If he is so what he now has a 4k stack Hero still has 10k.

Might answer this in a round about kind of way. Fold Equity in this hand is irrelevant. We are the big stack. When I mentioned earlier on that calling = pushing the BB in the hand knows that our call is pretty much a push.


Seeing 5 cards is always great. However by calling and having the big blind call. We now have the opportunity to only let the BB see 3 cards whilst we get to see 5. If we are AIPF he can hit a backdoor low. If he calls the flop and folds he can't.

BB cannot bluff on the flop, or the turn or the river at all during this hand. If he does he risks being eliminated in 3rd position whilst Hero cannot be eliminated.

hi guys

i got problems all time, with AAXX( XX BAD cards)




what is the best move to play this hands ?? cold call? 3bet? push?

sorry for me english.

Hi fishes and sharks

im currently playing sits $3.5 / $7 and i would like to play $15 ....can u tell me what is the ideal or decent roi for play levels 3.5 , 7 and 15?

thx

if u mix it up 1ooo$ should do.

Play AA** (**bad) very carefully early in a sng.

That shove is ridiculous, keep doing it and you will learn why.

A fish can play the $15s with any ROI (including negative) because they are fishes and can play whatever they want.

In all seriousness, I think you should not base your ability to play a higher buyin based on your ROI in lower stakes, but your ability to adjust to the differences between the two levels. For instance, the $1.50s and $3.50s are more passive preflop whereas there is more action in the $15s.

i think you need to play a few of the $15s for yourself and get a feel for them to see how the differences in the game. Also, if you're not playing anything, rail some of the games and see how some of the "better" players play specific spots.

I would not be results oriented, seems standard.

you played it perfect

Will you explain this please gravy?

Yes. I misread his hand. That's not bad aces.

snap shove IMO: BTN must have above avg. hand to not wait for BB next hand... hero has strong hand... so BB likely has weak hand, and very rarely well be ahead of hero... don't let BB see flop when his hand may be as/more playable than hero's and he is IP, get it in while you are almost certainly ahead... hero's hand would have to lose to both villains for him to be in tough spot after hand, and even then he will be BTN next hand with over 4M