Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Omaha/8 Discussions of Omaha High-Low Split (Eight or Better) Poker.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-09-2018, 05:18 PM   #26
kisada
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,197
Re: Trying to understand my own ranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by amok View Post
Your thinking is still way too nitty in HU pots.

First of all, even against a relatively tight button open this hand is just good. It's not a matter of fold or call, it's a matter of call or 3-bet. Calling is OK, especially if he opens tight.

Flop I'd always check-call.

This is the best turn card for you (tied with 2). I think you should be check-raising here a lot. If you don't check-raise (but check-call), you do it to trap.

River jam is roughly 3,5x pot. You need ~43,6% equity to call (ignoring rake). Against a random A3 you have 50,3%. I think it must be a call.
flop feels pretty iffy to me given only mid pair/2nd NLD and no backdoors while OOP. could you elaborate on why you feel it's c/c?

also OTR, how would you handle playing riv shove vs a tighter player? like if you know shoving frequency here is really high with, say, A3/pair of T's+, it's a fold, correct? like maybe you've seen them just make a PSB OTR before with NL/middling pairs, and checking back all bare nut lows.

caterina, i'm definitely check/jamming on turn. think check/shove is best. given nut low made and a pair. plus folding out a better pair is super good here. would like to hear what others think though.
kisada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 07:37 PM   #27
amok
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: 0/24
Posts: 2,023
Re: Trying to understand my own ranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada View Post
flop feels pretty iffy to me given only mid pair/2nd NLD and no backdoors while OOP. could you elaborate on why you feel it's c/c?
I'm quite astonished someone thinks it's not an easy check-call. I think check-folding is a huge leak (I even like check-raising better). If you habitually c/f decent hands on the flop in HU-pots you will be ran over by a monkey with a bet button. Just plug some ranges into propokertools and you will see that this hand does easily well enough to be check-called.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada View Post
also OTR, how would you handle playing riv shove vs a tighter player? like if you know shoving frequency here is really high with, say, A3/pair of T's+, it's a fold, correct? like maybe you've seen them just make a PSB OTR before with NL/middling pairs, and checking back all bare nut lows.
Yeah, if I perceive villain's range as so strong that I get less than ~43,6%, I fold. In practice this requires that I think they have two sizings on the river. Against small bet I c/r AI and against shove I c/f.
amok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 10:56 PM   #28
monikrazy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
monikrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 24,597
Re: Trying to understand my own ranges

This last hand. Would sometimes 3! Vs a btn opener but its situational, and the hand itself has minor flaws.

As played flop call is standard and turn is either a bet call or xr, it should never be a xc because we want to force opponent to fold high equity incorrectly.

As played river is a call.

Btw, to respond to the question in the OP. It sounds like you spend too much time thinking about your hand and not enough about what hands opponent are likely to have. While equity always matters your play is way too tight postflop - you need to really make an effort to bet more medium strength hands when you have position because it puts your opponents under a lot of pressure. You also don't need to worry as much about the river when betting aggressively on other street vastly reduces the range of hands villain will show up with.

Weak-tight strategy does not work well in Omaha games, it's a constant bleed out where opponents realize too much equity for free and take advantage of a face-up range to run low-effort semi bluffs with little fear of being penalized.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
monikrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 11:09 PM   #29
kisada
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,197
Re: Trying to understand my own ranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by amok View Post
I'm quite astonished someone thinks it's not an easy check-call. I think check-folding is a huge leak (I even like check-raising better). If you habitually c/f decent hands on the flop in HU-pots you will be ran over by a monkey with a bet button. Just plug some ranges into propokertools and you will see that this hand does easily well enough to be check-called.
i see your point. what i typically have been thinking up to this point is being OOP with non-nut LD and a mid pair and no real high draw all adds up to some troublesome spots where heavy pressure is tough to deal with.

like i was thinking it's really obnoxious to put myself in a spot where i might be faced with a PSB on turn and riv while still holding this middle pair and often with a second nut low made.

but as you said the PPT equities show a more advantageous situation. even a 20% opening range we're basically 50/50, and against random a2/a3/a4/23 there's still an uptick in equity.

this makes me wonder if my approach to the turn has also been fundamentally flawed, and it certainly seems like i've been overfolding. so my question then is: what turns are you folding to a strong bet?
kisada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 02:22 AM   #30
amok
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: 0/24
Posts: 2,023
Re: Trying to understand my own ranges

I agree that it is somewhat troublesome. Still, you need to try to realize your equity OOP. You can't just fold the flop every time you don't have a hand that can stand 3 barrels or that can raise.

I am folding some turns certainly, definitely non low completing . Very situational of course, against some very aggressive players I might check-shove to an offsuit J/Q for example and so on.
amok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 04:58 AM   #31
Caterina
centurion
 
Caterina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 143
Re: Trying to understand my own ranges

Thanks everyone. I didn't want to hear it, but I appreciate that you point out still being too weak/tight and I'll work on it. It's certainly true.

I'm not sure, everything applies that seems to be implied by the responses. Additional information:
- opp does not bet flops often in this situation (small BTN open, HU), responding to this, I started leading a good amount.
- opp does not bet flop and turn without some strong hand, especially since the 2 shows. Pretty sure, he has A3+ something made or a strong draw minimum.
- This is the first time in ~400 hands that he makes a huge overbet on the river.
Caterina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 05:24 AM   #32
amok
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: 0/24
Posts: 2,023
Re: Trying to understand my own ranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caterina View Post
- opp does not bet flops often in this situation (small BTN open, HU), responding to this, I started leading a good amount.
A bad adjustment IMO. You should be leading when you have a range advantage, not when villain plays a low cbet strategy.
amok is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online