Instead of being rude and disrespectful, why don't you enlighten us as to why he's wrong?

Amok already did but ok

NL Holdem is still the most popular form of poker and there is really no other game that even slightly threatens to change that. There are more NL Holdem tournaments worldwide now than at any point in history. He says NL Holdem cash games have gotten smaller in recent years and perhaps this is true in the US but gee I wonder why? It wouldn't have anything to do with almost no Americans under 30 taking up poker as a hobby or lol profession since their only option to learn the game is to play on shady garbage sites. Kids learn everything online these days. It is pretty hard for a game to grow in size without any new players. Also most countries outside of the US only run NL Holdem in their casinos and in a select few PLO.

He says there is no edge in NLO8 even though he has likely never even played the game. There are probably 30+ people with 500k+ winnings in NLO8 so don't give me some BS about it being an unbeatable rake trap. **** even the highly raked 20bb cap games on stars are still beatable. Learn PLO8 instead? If your goal is to play high stakes 25-50+ then it's probably a waste of time to learn either game.

i did mix live and online a bit. but my posts were talking about op/galfondstyles post about no/l with .5&1 blinds 20 cap. this is unbeatable or close to it with rake and blinds you pay since it becomes a push fest once players learn more about the game.
just because you can get an edge doesnt mean it is worth playing.

and a 55% edge is a big edge or it can be but at small caps it doesnt make sense to think that is a better game than pot limit which is more skillful with bigger buyins.

and i do believe once the worse players realize that by pushing all in in the capped games they lose less quickly and then the rake takes a bigger bite. the loose money will dry up and the games will falter. if you think differently and think it is the game of the future. maybe you are right but i dont think it will last or grow.

anytime a new type of game is spread those that know how to play it win alot until the players get better and that slows down.

You might be correct about .5-1. I've only played 2-4 through 5-10 so I'm not really sure. Either way I don't think anyone is suggesting 20bb cap anything is the game of the future just that it is beatable. Its basically a dead format now anyway since PS removed their rakeback program. I wouldn't suggest for any new player to play it unless there is a huge whale at the table.

There are definitely still big edges to be had in NLO8 tournaments and non cap NLO8 cash games however.

no argument with that at all.
but lets wait and see if the cash games stay good or last. my take is no.

Could you explain why you think NLO8 is so much different from PLO8?

the big reason is that a person can push rather than bet the pot which still lays you 2 to 1 always.
so some things change like betting a draw to try to win it there as the raise can knock you out now if you are deep.
and harder to bet for value as the bluff can be so much stronger.
same as in holdem except in omaha there are many more spots where your not much of a dog on a draw.

and many pots if you are the better player it gets shoved so you dont get to use your expert plays later on. you just have to take your smaller ev early rather than have a bigger earn by good play on later streets.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I think the difference is rather small and the biggest impact is on pre-flop play.

You know it's pretty hard to find over-shoves in spots that you describe without having a very strong hand, thus these spots don't come very often (we bet a draw and get shoved on). In my experience you don't get shoved on a lot in any spot (and when you do, you know what you are up against). I do not know what your experience in this is, or if you have ever played a single hand of NLO8.

FWIW I experience similar win rates in both games.

yes i have but i find that good players and aggressive bad ones will push on you when they think its about even especially in all spots where they can get outplayed on the next street or dont get to see the river if they miss the next street.

if the games you play in the players dont shove much then it is a good game and you should win regularly and do well. those are not the games i refer to and would love to play in them as well in high stakes.

in general, in poker great preflop play can make you decent money. but the bigger money comes from late play in big pots. when playing deeper.
in no limit much of the big pots get built and played early. in pot limit they are forced to play the big pots on later streets.

the good part about poker is all players think they are right and most are, as what they think works for their particular style. and thats fine.

I don't agree with you, but I have nothing constructive to add.

it was a good discussion and no limit/o8 is here online and it will be until the situation changes. if it doesnt and lasts then i am wrong for sure. but on all parts that part of it is just speculation.

and if enough players can beat the rake and blinds in the game. then that is good and i hope they all do well. as then poker is good. i also have nothing further to add and out. thanks

Omaha just naturally plays well as pot limit. Since the draws can be so big, the pot limit naturally puts a good sizing on bets that makes it challenging.

I'm not saying there is no skill to NL because there certainly is. And frankly I love nothing more than playing bad players in NL. (Even though they think they like it more, when they play against good players it kills them.) But what I'm saying is that the pot limit format works very well with the fundamental nature of how the cards work in the game.

Guys I have a question to those of you who play both games online:
Do you use the same HUD with the same Stats for both games?
I'd be thankful for your answers

It also makes calling a 'pot bet' on the river questionable if you are getting quartered or sixthed.

Ladies and gentlemen, here is NLO8.
one of the most stupid poker games ever, good only for rake and weak players who want to avoid decisions on multiple streets!!!
PLO8 1000 times better!!
This was a 27 $ tourney, first prize was 800, I bust as seventh after playing the best I can for hours, losing against 42% and take 140 $ home.
This should be a good poker game??
For Pokerstars maybe and for luckers who win this kind fo coin flips!

The irony ul though.

IMO it's stupid to allow pre-flop shoving in any poker game where hand equities run super close.

PLO8 >>>>> NLO8

Agree.
Players want action, wand to bust and rebuy, want to pay more rake, want to avoid decisions on multiple streets, that's why this game is so successful on pokerstars and there are much more nlo8 tourneys than plo8.

I predict pokerstars at some point will introduce pre flop PL and post flop NL....

this would be a good idea, much better than it is now, but I don't think this is happening, I can't imagine this because they earn too much money with this NoLimit shoving fest and also because of fishes like us who play this anyway