I noticed too it was quite dead for a while. At the tables.

Here is another spot that's similar in that I'm again the middle sized stack. However, this time I have no fold equity. My calculations indicated that I should be calling a VERY tight range here, like even AAw was a marginal call. Those results surprised me a lot. My intuition was I could still call it off as long as I was getting a decent premium on direct pot odds. Is this a super easy fold?

yeah, i'd fold this

that said, i don't know how much i should open up in this type of spot in general, when i used to play stt's they were nlhe 9 mans which have entirely different icm implications on the bubble, 50/30/20 is somewhat different to 65/35 payouts

Since you are familiar with holdem icm, perhaps you can still help shed some light on this situation. I followed instructions from the STT forum that indicates we need 74.8% equity to call it off if this were an NLHE hyper.

Pwin>(EQfold/EQwin)
Pwin>34.9%/46.6% (used icm calculator from HEM)

That would imply we are only calling AA/KK vs a 40% shoving range... does that sound reasonable? To me it sounds like a very extreme adjustment, but perhaps its plausible.

just a short question: if you need 75% equity in nl holdem, do you need 75% in omaha h/L as well? or more or less because of so many split pots?
Thanks

Yes that's what I've assumed as well. Its seems intuitive to me that we need somewhat less than 75% due to split pots. Otherwise, it would imply we fold 100% in nlo8, which I have a hard time believing. My approach has been to assume that icm adjustments are going to be smaller in nlo8 than holdem, so I tend to err on the side of calling when pot odds are good. Here I need 46% to be breakeven in chipEV and I'm likely a small favorite vs his range, so I called. However, I suspect it was a significant mistake.

Split pot has enormous impact imo. Survival rate for both villain and hero is significantly higher. Makes equity mean more.

tryptamean, I think its better for u to calculate yourself instead of taking advise from this forum. the realy good players dont share their theory for free anyway.

for real. you guys are smarter than us limit players lol.

biood has a point. I've spent some time on figuring things out. Can't give everything on a platter. Little by little though...

he has a point on figuring things out for yourself

he doesn't have a point on people not being helpful here, there are plenty of posts over a long period in which knowledgeable players have given out a wealth of information, and anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong.

Most of the O8 community has recognized for quite a long time that it is in all of our interests to teach people how to play and try to increase the number of people who play the game. It's unfortunate that you believe that sharing information about how to play the game is bad for the game or giving something out "on a platter".

bro, trainingsites destroyed online poker... ITS FOR SURE bad for me if people get better. I'm rather trying to attract people by showing my results.

I agree with you bio, although my personal attitude towards lhe advice is that I'm willing to answer simple questions for noobs. Also the lhe community is saturated with good regs and tons of strategy material anyway so it doesn't really affect much.

I would point out though that not long ago you were asking for more regs to start 60s and 100s.... jus sayin!

you're wrong, bro

you don't make any money if nobody plays the game

or, conversely, think about how much *more* money you'd make if there was a real player base ... I forget how much money wintermute was making a month (or purporting to make a month) back before Black Friday, but I recall it was a lot ... hell I made mid five figures annually playing part time

you can't compare O8 to NLHE

I believe in sharing. You get better yourself that way too, for example, and it's more fun. We can help each other out in the community. I'm trying to always give honest answers, one problem at a time. Giving out all of a winning strategy "on a platter" in one post crosses the line for most though. Silence is a right we all have. Very many are practising that, all the lurkers. Lying? Never right.

biood, I think you shouldn't be too afraid. People are mostly playing like they do whatever we say. Our posts will much be lost with time. Learn to verbalize, and get better. Build honest trust, and you will succed in real life, and probably in poker also. You may get fed up at some point otherwise.

Thanks Buzz for you posts recently itt. I gave up some chip EV with the short stack, the middle stack got kicked out, and as a bonus I won the tournament! Hadn't I participated in the discussion I wouldn't have thought well enough about the problem, and wouldn't have learned.



The net adjusted is the way you want it, without having any monster hands. Haven't got these numbers with only chip ev strategy.

I kind of "earned" second place!

Can you post the hand plaaynde?

Poker Stars $3.32+$0.18 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds + t6 - 3 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): t660 M = 6.11
BTN: t1353 M = 12.53
SB: t987 M = 9.14

Pre Flop: (t108) Hero is BB with T 9 4 5
BTN raises to t150, SB raises to t981 all in, 1 fold, BTN calls t831

Flop: (t2040) 7 K K (2 players - 1 is all in)
Turn: (t2040) J (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: (t2040) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)
Final Pot: t2040
BTN shows 6 5 2 3 (HI: a pair of Kings)
SB shows Q A J 5 (HI: two pair, Kings and Jacks)
SB wins t2040



Poker Stars $3.32+$0.18 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Tournament - t40/t80 Blinds + t8 - 3 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): t550 M = 3.82
BTN: t304 M = 2.11
SB: t2146 M = 14.90

Pre Flop: (t144) Hero is BB with 9 2 2 4
BTN raises to t296 all in, SB raises to t2138 all in, 1 fold

Flop: (t696) 4 T 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)
Turn: (t696) 7 (2 players - 2 are all in)
River: (t696) K (2 players - 2 are all in)
Final Pot: t696
BTN shows 8 J 6 J (HI: two pair, Jacks and Fours)
SB shows A Q A 2 (HI: two pair, Aces and Fours)
SB wins t696

that seem to be two standard decisions from your point of view. not even that much ICM involved.

Usually I'm fiercely defending the big blind, if I can spot some chip ev gaining possibility, haven't actually run the simulations in this case though. Had I called, it would definitely have been about ICM. An ICM mistake that is.

urgh, lose all the profits from the past week today, marvellous

Haven't seen biood at the tables for a couple of days.

Where are you?

I was playing every day last 4-5 days.

It must have been me playing too little then.

Not played hypers for a couple of months but dropped in today. Biood heater still good .