honestly, whats your h/$ whatever game you play ? 2 8 Q K totally fine from SB for like 15 bigs. 4456 way better hand than you probably think. maybe it was DS or something i dont know. plus, over 19k hands, i can do some little mistakes, its not a big deal. you guys shoud have like 100$ hourly in 6max hypers as you pretend to be better than us. I will search for the 4456 hand in my pt4 later, gonna watch soccer now. netherlands vs chile, i guess 3:2 for chile.

PokerStars - $3.32+$0.18|15/30 Ante 3 NL Hi/Lo (6 max) - Omaha Hi/Lo - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 33.93 BB
Hero (UTG): 16.07 BB
CO: 17.33 BB
BTN: 15.4 BB
SB: 17.27 BB

5 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2 BB) Hero has 5 4 6 4

Hero raises to 15.97 BB and is all-in, CO raises to 17.23 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (33.93 BB, 2 players) 8 K Q

Turn: (33.93 BB, 2 players) A

River: (33.93 BB, 2 players) 9

Hero shows 5 4 6 4 (One Pair, Fours) (Pre 46%, Flop 16%, Turn 26%)
CO shows T K 6 A (Two Pair, Aces and Kings) (Pre 54%, Flop 84%, Turn 74%)
CO wins 33.93 BB

this one ? maybe litle spewy, not much to worry about imo. def not enough to call it a big mistake imo.

Yes it was that hand. Spewy in my eyes. But you can play whatever hand you want too. it is your money. That hand is not +ev in the long run what so ever. Gl in the future

A bit spewy, got some fold equity though, and the meta game

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
5s 4h 6h 4 d	49.86%	213,950	272,660	5,158	212,211	10,024
*	50.15%	215,713	322,182	5,158	84,741	10,024

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
5s 4h 6h 4d	46.81%	188,891	277,400	3,253	172,246	4,251
a	53.19%	226,127	319,347	3,253	129,360	4,251

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
5s 4h 6h 4d	39.80%	151,308	219,548	1,268	180,537	1,884
aa	60.20%	272,722	379,184	1,268	105,921	1,884

Not as bad as I thought. Slightly negative all in all I would think anyway. Would even say it depends on the table. If people are folding eagerly, it can be a winning play. There is 2BB in the pot after all.

One more

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
5s 4h 6h 4d	47.98%	186,142	309,400	230	152,157	568
a2k	52.02%	210,439	290,370	230	162,564	568

Wow. Wp.

consider it in terms of $EV and not chipEV .

its a slight simplification because of btn's stacksize, but hero is effectively putting his tournament life, therefore 100% of his t$ at risk.

is it Wp??

I think tournament life is not that big a deal in the hi/lo 6-max hypers. You can start playing another table faster if busting, winning more. If you win the all-in, the blinds will not start dictating your play so fast, which is good from an ev-standpoint.

I think equity is by far the most important. The split-pot game makes you not bust so readily. Maybe I'll change my mind some day, if somebody publishes a good ICM calculator for this game

Considering position, stack size in BBs, and no. of players this is bad.

its close, Would like to hear bokkie, juicy's opinion about it. even if,
its at least not a huge mistake. like, You cant come arround and tell everyone i am an idiot because i did shove there. in general i dont get it why people who arn't even relevant to today's games act kinda rude here.

Nice push,biood1 but i think that this is not big mistake.

I would probably fold in that spot but I doubt its that big of a mistake either in most 3.50 line ups. It might be +ev if everyone is folding a lot which is the case a lot of the time in 3.50s.

Played my first hypers in a month or two because of this hand.

Nobody called you an idiot. You post a hand and ask for opinions, dont be so sensitive. I mean juicy hasn't played these properly for ages but you want his opinion, slightly contradictory dont you think?

I posted hand because quantum acted like im an idiot pushing there. Just because he doesn use the exact word " idiot " everybody understands what he means. I resprect Juicy's opinion because IMO he is one of the best 6m hyper players who actually played a big sample and I see him sometimes these days. doesnt mean I disrespect other opinions.

any1 that doesn't think this is a big mistake is way over valueing this hand from UTG and the number of times it actually gets through as that's the best case scenario other than getting lucky, only to pick up the blinds which makes little difference to heros stack anyway.

Having said that if it's just an odd glitch then considering the massive volume booid was playing then it's a drop in the ocean so no biggie in the scheme of things.

Very interesting to me.

I'd hate playing against you.

Seems like you're taking a flier, hoping either everyone folds or you somehow luck out and win the pot.

When I play with people like you, I'm forced to gamble without knowing where I stand. I'd rather gamble when I think the odds are in my favor.

I don't see that the odds are in your favor here.

I'd rather fold this hand and wait for a better starting hand... and probably better position. And I imagine most astute opponents feel much the same... and by playing this way, you have that going for you.

In other words, by betting this way, you force some opponents to fold better hands... hands that might end up beating you if you limped.

Holding Villain's cards here, I'd worry that you had aces (AA**). I think your bet more or less "represents" aces. Perhaps that's because mostly when opponents have bet this way against me, they do have aces. And although Villain has a playable hand, it's a dog against aces.

I agree. Well... except that you mis-read CO, more or less missing how tenaciously he plays against you.

Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing.

Buzz

OK I will do you this one favour. This one play and your defence of it is a microcosm of a flawed philosophy that shows opponents little/no respect.

4 5 (4 6) is ~ a 52/48 dog for the high pot vs any A X X X, 52/47 dog vs rainbow A 5 7 8. Against A 5 X X, you are 50/50 for low, vs single A 4 you are 29/22 dog for low, vs A 2 4 X you are 5-1 against for low.

So, should we shove utg with an equi-stack of 16 BBs?

Sure, if we ignore the fact that statistically at least one ace has been dealt 5-handed. And if you ignore any chance of an A 5 X X hand calling, which is 50/50 for both high and low, any player having a read on you, any players prepared to shove any A, newbies wanting to call with 3 (J K) K (you would be 3/2 against for high, making low ~ 51%) or heaven forbid, that a stronger hand than 4 4 5 6 ss has been dealt (vs 3 4 7 7 ds, you are worse than 3-1 to scoop, vs A 2 4 J ds it's 50/50 for high and 5-1 against for low).

You deserved to be quartered, you bust, all the better.

Relax though, I see "Sensai Juicy" making the same kind of shove-tard plays all the time, so you're doing it all perfectly After all, if you get it in 50/50 or even 52/48 against, that's usually a win, right?

Clearly the correct play in that situation was to fold, it's not even in question. You decided to go all-in. When you start to appreciate all the nuances that make that shove bad, you will realise that yes, you were an idiot

I'm an idiot all the time, we all are - but the most important thing is to acknowledge how you transgressed, so that you can fix it and get better. At least that's what they tell me at the meetings.

What meetings?

Buzz

Yes, if you bumped into this guy for the first time, started playing cards and saw that shove, you might fold a wide range.

But no, YOU wouldn't hate playing with this guy Buzz. So if he shoves 4 5 (4 6) utg, what is he doing with A 7 (7 T) on the button? What happens if you shove and he has 2 3 4 7 in the BB? Invariably the chips end up in the middle lol.

Maybe there are ways you can manipulate this aggression to your advantage.....

With talonchick of course

psychiatric ward weekly meetings?

Ah. I've heard of talonchick.

Buzz

thats not a professionel way to analyze imo... you need to put the hand against calling ranges... against top 20% dat hand has 45,3%, means hero will lose arround 5,2% of his stack ( dead money in pot ) on average if he gets called.

risking 16BB to win 2BB.. if hero gets everybody to fold, it increases his stack with 12,5 %. The turnament life isnt important at this point as the hand is 5 handed and hero has to risk turnament life at some point ANYWAY.

with dat numbers, shove is +EV if hero has around 30% foldequity imo.

I used the fpp pro fold equity calculator. If you have an equity of 45% when called by one villain, all villains must fold 26% of the times. 47% equiety two handed is the cutoff when it becomes profitable even when always being called by one villain.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
544x6x	48.69%	211,156	228,967	1,341	284,600	3,740
kk	51.31%	227,212	369,692	1,341	27,467	3,740

Incredible hand. Would hope I could identify these. It must have to do with that it's quite strong both ways: for high with the suitedness, pair, straigth potential, and for the low with counterfeit protection, three reasonably low cards.


And now some three handed:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
544x6x	30.52%	90,339	191,117	3,035	128,540	2,768
kk	33.68%	155,473	238,505	3,283	7,867	4,368
a2	35.80%	110,607	165,411	3,647	190,672	4,197

I can live with these numbers

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
544x6x	28.19%	88,978	202,928	2,888	67,833	898
aa	40.86%	181,045	264,718	10,092	30,178	28,517
a2	30.95%	95,771	120,651	10,459	157,804	28,415

Now it's starting to hurt a bit, but you are against any AA one time in 40, so it's 10% you have one at your table when you shove with 4 opponents.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
544x6x	34.68%	114,944	183,583	2,670	180,349	4,523
aa	42.43%	162,372	259,121	2,404	115,570	3,348
kk	22.90%	104,518	153,558	2,421	16,307	3,575

lol, over 33%...

If you prefer villains perfectly evaluating what's top 10% and 20%, please see below. Using x, y and z is the correct way to write the hand, it lowers value a bit, eliminating double suits, which are possible the way I (wrongly) wrote the hand above (544x6x), have timed out though.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
5x 4y 4z 6z	44.09%	170,156	275,815	2,449	143,887	3,345
10%	55.91%	240,049	321,736	2,449	157,090	3,345

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
5x 4y 4z 6z	45.28%	177,417	278,661	4,063	149,763	5,393
20%	54.72%	232,774	317,276	4,063	150,350	5,393

Looks biood's hand will at least not take you straight down to hell. But it ain't paradise either. Maybe nice for mixing up the play, let people keep guessing.

I just asked my dog and he said its spew, if he is wrong i will eat his poo.

Yea Ev chips is the most important. Who cares about $?