hey, im newish to 2+2 n thought id say hello seens as im a reg noob at the low stakes hi/lo hypers

any one know is the ev is right on holdem manager for hi/lo?

I am 99% sure that no.

Welcome to the forum!

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welcome to the forum!

welcome

thanks guys

Right in PT4?

I don't know. I have only used HEM1

might check it out see if my ev line is any better.....

whats ur guys average all in %

its pretty irrelevant beyond the first level or two 5-6 handed, even then chip ev is more usefull than all in %.

The flaw in pt4 although hem may have this as well is that if there is a player at the table who has less than 1 big blind and all in the ev line for the hand played for all players at the table does not work and just records identical to the chips won line. This of course happen frequently in hypers and can throw off you chip ev line and your adjusted winnings. PT knows about it and are currently unable to fix it as far as I know.

If you look at you ev graph thoroughly you will find often when you are running bad you are running even worse than you think and the opposite holds true when you are running good.

Looking at EV tilts the crap out of me. I need to believe that when I am winning it's because I am a **** hot poker player and when I lose it's because I "run bad". EV kind of crushes all that for me and it's only this mind set that keeps me sane.

yeah but its nice to know ur doing something right if ya ev line is in the green! rather then running like god all the time

u look pretty good to me....

Couldn't agree more. Can't even remember the last time I looked at one. It's utter bollox for hypers anyway. Unless you are looking at it over several hundred thousand all in hands I don't get why you would torture yourself with the microcosm of the macro.

Nobody, ever really posts graphs when they run **** hot. Most use it as a crutch. I despise their usage with a passion. I am not even sure they work that well anyway, especially not for $ev.

See the light. Stop using them. Concentrate on the thing you can affect, being a better player.

Polemic over

There are basically two views on ev graphs, player group A despises them because they are way over life time ev. Player group B clings on to them because they are way under life time ev. Lets be honest there are no logically drawn opinions ever created on the issue, just the above two.

This i have to disagree with. plo8 hypers is a format where ev graphs are at their most usefull. With the game having very little post flop play and hand equitys running pretty close a huge amount of the varience that exists in the game is accounted for in the graph (certainly much more that other game types). Having played a fair amount of holdem husngs this becomes obvious just by eye balling the different graphs.

One thing I wonder is does EV really show how good/bad you run? If you lose 50/50 all in in a 2000 pot and then win 50/50 in a 100 pot, are you running under EV or are you running how you are supposed to?

Wrong. My not looking and depending on EV graphs has 0 correlation to my despising them.

I have no clue about how I run, because I haven't looked at an EV graph in about 2 years. I have found this hasn't been an impediment to my play whatsoever, in fact the opposite on so many levels that I have already described in previous posts on the subject.

If you look at Bob who, is a far better player than I, it doesn't seem to have affected him either. Bob is not a fish on a heater, and his reasoning, like mine, has nothing to do with running over or under EV. It's a simple acknowledgement, that it can affect your game in so many ways that it's not worth bothering concerning yourself with. What concerns him I suspect, is making the best decision and $ev/ev play.

What grinds my gears though, more than anything, is that compared to the correct calculations I did on $ev at the time for 08 it was incorrect. I think this is largely to do with it's calculation of split pots etc. On a wider point it cannot evaluate the overall $ev of the play because it cannot incorporate fold equity.

So therefore, last time I looked, it not only couldn't measure the all in $ev correctly, but doesn't even have the function of being able to measure how well you played the hand.

So what the hell is it's purpose in SNGs?

Therefore, I almost find myself an advocate of it, because it stops people using their brain and doing the maths and calculations themselves.

No it doesnt have the function of being able to measure how well you played the hand. Then it never had the purpose of doing this. It is a tool, every tool has a job, its job is to show a results line removing a specific type of variance from the game. That variance is how you run after the action in the hand has been closed. To say its pointless because it doesnt do stuff it never was designed or claimed to do makes no sense to me.

I dont see how having more accurate information available to you (note i said more not complete) can be an inpediment to your play.

You are going to need to help me out here, what ill effects can it bring to your game to make it not worth while? I also do not see how it can be of hinderence in "making the best decision $ev/ev play.

I know the $ev line used to be wrong in pt4 but they seem to have fixed that some time last year. I recieved a support ticket from them saying that split pot games were now accurately calculated. I really dont think they would say that if it wasnt true.

You do have a rather significant ability to select, ignore and misconstrue what I was saying I believer.

1. I suppose by not countering my point that it is possible to have more than 2 reasons for liking or disliking EV graphs and their usage (i.e your assertion that +ev people ignore, -ev people pay attention), that you obviously agree with this.

2. I was obviously aware that ev graphs don't have FE lol. What I was saying, and am repeating again, was that staring at the graph omits the focus on the thing you can affect, how you played the hand, and this is dependent on working out whether you under or overestimated fold equity in your play.

3. You have agreed that the function it is designed for, calculating $ev, has only recently actually been made accurate lol for one of the major trackers So what you are saying is that it used to be inaccurate, as per my original assertion. Glad we agree on something.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. Shakey and I are capable of having a debate without resorting to your style. Neither of us are fish, especially at hypers, and I certainly respect his game. He even seems to have reigned in the aggro chat unlike you. I think he probably thinks you're a bigger tool than even I and the rest of the forum do.

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Ya I asked the mods to remove my post bc I was being an ass. I apologise to you both for infringing on your rights to post and discuss poker strategy without hassles. Ofc you know what my motivations were for snapping in the first place.

I was writing more 01-09-2014



aless_84...
I am already tired of your preaching.
Do you consider yourself the most intelligent all know someone better.
You like to play without the short stacks - you play without them.

I adacan made for 100k VPP every in January.
The last months we have made a 0 (I at least).
Here you specify what is best for us - lol .

Let introduce a CAP-tables and time will tell viable or not.