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11-25-2014 , 06:46 PM
being good at hypers has nothing to do with "skill" or knowledge of the game, its just learning to beat the system if u like and play high volume, who ever can do that is the best.
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11-25-2014 , 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by alexmck123
being good at hypers has nothing to do with "skill" or knowledge of the game, its just learning to beat the system if u like and play high volume, who ever can do that is the best.

ty..at last some1 said it
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11-25-2014 , 07:36 PM
Billy I would say most people can average 40 tables an hour easily - hell if I can anybody can....it just takes work. Pity I only have about 1-1.5 hours a day to play . Need to up the tables IMO!

I agree the 70+ers are beyond the reach of the average though and concur that it requires significant effort to get there.
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11-25-2014 , 07:45 PM
I call bull**** on the no skill bit. Edges are different in all games and every game requires a different skill set. That said, I think the skills required in hyper turbos are amongst the easiest to acquire, so it amazes me how there are so few decent players. I would guesstimate maybe 20 max that are reasonable.

The thing is with Amaya in charge of Pokerstars (casino games coming apparently) there will be more flocking to hypers. The games are shifting that way. It's a shame really - it's a rush to the bottom. It's a bit like the UK education system - let's make everything that is difficult really really easy for the masses, dumb the **** down, and give everyone a gold star. In the end though the dullards get eaten alive in the real world just like poker.

On a side note **** you Pokerstars for raping poker.
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11-25-2014 , 09:36 PM
I think you need skill in the hypers. It's just a different set, as said. There still is some flop and even later street play, at occasions. And when you have them, you can lose or win much. And if you just flip random hands PF, you can't win. Even if some hands I play can be criticized, there are even worse hands I don't play. And the playability of hands shift dramatically depending on the stage of the game, especiallly on the blinds.

It's very possible I will not play any game but the hypers anymore. The few talents I have in poker must be focused.

Last edited by plaaynde; 11-25-2014 at 09:45 PM.
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11-25-2014 , 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by plaaynde
I think you need skill in the hypers. It's just a different set, as said. There still is some flop and even later street play, at occasions. And when you have them, you can lose or win much. And if you just flip random hands PF, you can't win. Even if some hands I play can be criticized, there are even worse hands I don't play. And the playability of hands shift dramatically depending on the stage of the game, especiallly on the blinds.

It's very possible I will not play any game but the hypers anymore. The few talents I have in poker must be focused.
I have never played in a "hyper."

My understanding from reading is the skills involved are
• knowing how to take advantage of the tournament structure,
• being able to recognize mistakes in opponent play, and
• knowing how to take advantage of opponent mistakes.

If that is correct, then it seems to me quite a lot of skill is involved.

Buzz
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11-25-2014 , 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by alexmck123
being good at poker has nothing to do with "skill" or knowledge of the game, its just learning to beat the system if u like and play high volume, who ever can do that is the best.
yup!! anyone can learn and work very hard to stay on top, just most people do not like to work hard
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11-25-2014 , 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by streityboy
I call bull**** on the no skill bit. Edges are different in all games and every game requires a different skill set. That said, I think the skills required in hyper turbos are amongst the easiest to acquire, so it amazes me how there are so few decent players. I would guesstimate maybe 20 max that are reasonable.

The thing is with Amaya in charge of Pokerstars (casino games coming apparently) there will be more flocking to hypers. The games are shifting that way. It's a shame really - it's a rush to the bottom. It's a bit like the UK education system - let's make everything that is difficult really really easy for the masses, dumb the **** down, and give everyone a gold star. In the end though the dullards get eaten alive in the real world just like poker.

On a side note **** you Pokerstars for raping poker.
a lot of skill put into this post streity! good work A+
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11-26-2014 , 12:07 AM
I do actually think there is skill in HT's...i'm just bein a moron obv

You just need decent o8 fundamentals really and solid HT strat which, as streity says, is pretty easy to learn but the tough part is being able to focus and mutli crazy table. Trying to switch off form all the results, beats etc is a skill in itself. One which I struggle with. + I am **** at multi tabling compared with the booid', juicy's, bokkie etc. Not sure how these guys do it.

I only use a laptop but I hear some saying ridic number of tables on a laptop.

Oh and booid is still an attention whoring dbag...but he gets points for making the thread entertaining. Speaking of entertaining I got a wee visit from an old friend today in omania(b4 I lol exact bubbled)

xQuantum1 [observer]: im not his buddy
xQuantum1 [observer]: he is a piece of ****
xQuantum1 [observer]: we are all defrauded
xQuantum1 [observer]: we think we are playing according to poker odds
xQuantum1 [observer]: some idiot playing like billygstar will win

granted I was playin a tad loose after 20 hours of it.

had a Cpl of comments about how good I run..bizzare..I have been runnin the nut worst all year...a mate that watched a whole session was in disbelief at how I was running. albeit I pretty grim session.
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11-26-2014 , 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Buzz

My understanding from reading is the skills involved are
• knowing how to take advantage of the tournament structure,
• being able to recognize mistakes in opponent play, and
• knowing how to take advantage of opponent mistakes.

If that is correct, then it seems to me quite a lot of skill is involved.

Buzz
That IS correct, gramps, but then again those 3 things are applicable to ANY game of poker.

The major difference and adjustment between 6m hyper and other games is the hand ranges pre-flop. In this format, and the rule holds stronger the higher the stakes, 90% of all play is shove/fold pre.

Put it this way - bokkie and biood are touting juicy as the best 6m hyper player. Well, in THOUSANDS OF GAMES OVER YEARS, I have never once seen juicy J put in a raise. Seriously, not one single raise. None of these guys can talk about post-flop play as theirs is non-existent.

This to me is HIGHLY exploitable as part of the rationale for the bluntness of this strategy is so that they can make their moves and forget about it, moving on to play another 10 hands simultaneously. It means that an observer like me multi-tabling the same games as a biood or juicy, gets a huge insight into the temporal mindset of the opposition - i.e. at parts of the day these kinda players will literally shove any 4 from position (shove when FTA a stupid % with any 4). At times button and SB shove is 100% and when short or in aggro-mode, I never cease to be amazed at the consistency of the 2 3 4 X utg shove.

Sure, there are benefits to this uber-tard strategy (if you run good, man, you will destroy everybody in record time) and aggression will always steamroller weaker players but, I don't even know why this needs explaining - If you RAISED with muck from position rather than SHOVED, well, a fair proportion of the time players don't really consider your bet, they fold/shove according to their hand strength, AND, the times you get caught with re-shoves don't cost your entire stack, AND, if you DO GET CAUGHT, this sets it up perfectly for the next time you raise (as opposed to shove) with premium hands.

Simply the strategy employed by these "greats" of 6m is careless, predictable, belligerent and exploitable.

I have played with every o8 reg posting in this forum and everybody that has ever played an o8 hyper > $15. I have them all tagged. And my record against them stacks up with anybody (even the greatest biood!). I have an ROI somewhere in the region of 5% in 6m, oh, and one time juicy posted a graph just of HU play between him and me. What did it show? It showed many thousands of instances where I got in ahead and to my utter amazement, it showed me holding > expectations (this was only HU). So juicy simply cannot be the best as I own him. I can tell you his hands, how he plays them. Seriously, in games I state his hand before I call and I get it right 100% of the time. It's like these "greats" live in a bubble whereby if they shove first, they win and are expected to win, regardless of the skillset or cards of the opposition. In every format of o8, I have owned juicy, even though overall he has been massively + EV vs me. I'd say if I could beat Money Mayweather with one hand tied behind my back, people might say I am a better boxer than he is.

But ANYWAY. There are only a handful of 6m players who have ever caused me the problem of being UNSURE of what they held. These players included bokkie87, janiosmo and vandir4rek. Guys who actually exhibit some level of SKILL, use READS, play post-flop sometimes, make hero calls and hero bluffs AS WELL as showing ultra aggression.

One more thing. Let's assume for a moment that biood's ability is 100, yours is 70 and you start multi-tabling some 6m. You sit at 3 tables, biood sits at 15. Even though you aren't as good as him, you have much more time to study the villains, game flow and your own plays. Multi-tabling is a bit of an equaliser and I am always DELIGHTED to know guys have so little respect for me and others than they do 20 tables when I do 8.

Despite all this, I don't play hypers any more because I can't beat the game. I just don't run good enough. What makes me REALLY ANGRY is reading from folks who think they are God's gift, who believe that they have some sort of control or influence over the running of cards due to their "superior" skill sets. All of us have had some pretty horrendous downswings in this game - what bokkie, juicy, wadzon etc have lost in sessions or months, meh, not for me in this crapshoot game - so when biood keeps boasting, I just smile and remind myself that it WILL happen to him too at some point. When he runs 10000 games and only cashes in 1000 of them, has lost $20K in a month, can't believe what the **** is going on. All it will take is 1-2 regs to sit in 6m and run better than biood. Doesn't make a dam bit of difference how amazing or otherwise biood plays, he will get his ass handed to him. Biood, if you are reading this, please stop proclaiming your greatness and making predictions like, "gonna win 20 SC leaderboards next year", as your fate is not your own............
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11-26-2014 , 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by billygstar
had a Cpl of comments about how good I run..bizzare..I have been runnin the nut worst all year...a mate that watched a whole session was in disbelief at how I was running. albeit I pretty grim session.
Bro, I don't wanna get into this deeply as I already made my suggestions for your game in the PS client, but honestly, in the o8 games we have both entered, you have run ABOVE average. Geezus you are on a streak of how many outdraws vs me? I believe it's at least 8 outdraws in a row, mostly busting me too, in o8 mtts > $20, for you. If you are running bad, then ........????

Sorry to hear you bubbled. I was angry after bubbling myself to a ****ing idiot and was taking it out on you but MATE, wtf was your bubble play about? The other players were complaining about you min-raising A 3 4 7 ms from utg + 1, and calling a shove on 4 7 9 flop (villain held A 2 9 J ds), turn was a duck. What are you doing there or trying to achieve? I switch off often myself during sessions but IMHO, you are just careless and beaten. You are using, "oh, I got bubbled last time with some idiot playing 2 3 4 5 ds from early position, I better play it now and donk someone back", kinda logic. I keep telling you, SO many times you get involved in pots that I am folding 99% to all villains. The "proper" mtt game (like $100 + games), doesn't translate so well to lower levels where your raise and bets don't get the same respect. I feel it's an issue for everybody (even me) between changing formats but I notice a lot guys like you and juicy struggle with the transition much more than I do. Anyway, there's my 5 cents, again.
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11-26-2014 , 12:24 PM
the point i was trying to make that u can have little knowlege of the game but if u know how to beat hypers you will make money, u can have a basic understanding of the game and still beat it. u can make 1mill playing hypers for all i care ur not going to be equiped to play phil ivey hu for your roll.

theres only so much u can learn from them. beating them is all about that grind!!

cash imo is allways the best play to learn or deeper stacked mtt
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11-26-2014 , 12:37 PM
I'd like to play hypers against Phil Ivey
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11-26-2014 , 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by plaaynde
I'd like to play hypers against Phil Ivey
Actually I wanna play and pay.
Then told my friend I play with him.
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11-26-2014 , 02:38 PM
maybe we can figure out a propbet about how much SC leaderboards i can win in 2015. if you think I was just lucky in 2014, it shud be pretty BIG +EV for you.
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11-26-2014 , 02:39 PM
people are good talking that other people are better than me and its ok to have that opinion but they wouldnt actually bet money on it ( cause they dont realy believe themself )
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11-26-2014 , 05:21 PM
get top of the the $1.50 and make that claim lol
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11-26-2014 , 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Exile
Bro, I don't wanna get into this deeply as I already made my suggestions for your game in the PS client, but honestly, in the o8 games we have both entered, you have run ABOVE average. Geezus you are on a streak of how many outdraws vs me? I believe it's at least 8 outdraws in a row, mostly busting me too, in o8 mtts > $20, for you. If you are running bad, then ........????

Sorry to hear you bubbled. I was angry after bubbling myself to a ****ing idiot and was taking it out on you but MATE, wtf was your bubble play about? The other players were complaining about you min-raising A 3 4 7 ms from utg + 1, and calling a shove on 4 7 9 flop (villain held A 2 9 J ds), turn was a duck. What are you doing there or trying to achieve? I switch off often myself during sessions but IMHO, you are just careless and beaten. You are using, "oh, I got bubbled last time with some idiot playing 2 3 4 5 ds from early position, I better play it now and donk someone back", kinda logic. I keep telling you, SO many times you get involved in pots that I am folding 99% to all villains. The "proper" mtt game (like $100 + games), doesn't translate so well to lower levels where your raise and bets don't get the same respect. I feel it's an issue for everybody (even me) between changing formats but I notice a lot guys like you and juicy struggle with the transition much more than I do. Anyway, there's my 5 cents, again.
sorry but that is just absolute bollocks lol. yeah I find it real hard to transition to low stakes mtts lol. That's why I have 60% ROI over 5k games in em. doh. yeah I play laggy at times but I am able to beat up average nitty regs frequently post flop and that outweighs the number of flips I have to take pre versus spewy donks.

I play way more mtt volume than you quantum and not just in o8 or on stars. I play all games and always at least 2 sites. You should remember that while your 2 tabling your o8 mtts in nitty fashion.

All you seem to do is question some standard hands we play but he w.e up to you ha

If you think I have run good this year well that's also up to you. What does it matter about a few hands I have run versus you....I know myself how I have ran on stars and its not a few meaningless hands versus you it's in the big money spots where it matters. For example I ran like **** all night last night an dthen final tabled omania 8.80. I think it was almost my only cash. I was chipleader and then took like 3 pretty horrid beats from absolute mules and then lost a flip when ahead to bust in 6th. It's these spots where I have run super bad all year in O8. Where it's literally costing me 100's dollars.

Oh my allin ev and gii on flops turns when ahead must be absolutely terrible this year in all games but o8 inc. You can't say you know as how on earth could you.

nlhe has been always getting beats/coolers in last 30 players or so in big field mtts.

And actually O8 has been the least bad. Coz even when running bad in O8 I can still pretty easily profit by outplaying recs and bad/abc regs.

and lol at that nit natedog complaining about me raising blah blah UTG. Like yawnkiss he is a huge nit nutpeddler and not even a very good one at that.

Oh and quantum. I would be willing to take any bet you like for mtt roi or profit over say the next 6 months or less. But as you think you run worse than me then we can use ev.

Last edited by billygstar; 11-26-2014 at 06:17 PM.
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11-26-2014 , 05:57 PM
I just realised i am in the ht thread lol. sorry but had to respond to quantum b4 he goes back into isolation.
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11-26-2014 , 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by biood1
maybe we can figure out a propbet about how much SC leaderboards i can win in 2015. if you think I was just lucky in 2014, it shud be pretty BIG +EV for you.
lolz
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11-29-2014 , 03:39 AM
Guess this must be my worst played non-misclick hand ever, just happened. Holy Jesus, was just so far off. But I rewieved and especially baby trips without low just can't be played if not some two third or three quarter of you stack is already in. Now only a third of the stack was:

    Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (20/40 blinds, 4 ante) No Limit Omaha H/L Tournament, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #32979521

    Hero (BB): 123 (3.1 bb)
    MP: 128 (3.2 bb)
    CO: 1,021 (25.5 bb)
    BTN: 946 (23.7 bb)
    SB: 782 (19.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 5 5 J 5
    MP raises to 124 and is all-in, 2 folds, SB raises to 208, Hero calls 79 and is all-in

    Flop: (387) J 4 6 (3 players, 2 are all-in)
    Turn: (387) A (3 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (387) Q (3 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 387 pot
    Final Board: J 4 6 A Q
    Hero showed 5 5 J 5 and lost (-123 net)
    MP showed 4 6 6 A and won 194 (66 net)
    SB showed K K 3 8 and won 193 (65 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

    Last edited by plaaynde; 11-29-2014 at 03:54 AM.
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    11-29-2014 , 02:55 PM
    wow, horrible.. would have to quit session after it.
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    11-29-2014 , 03:17 PM
    It was just so bad. I kind of relied on memory. Trips can even be played at times when a third of your stack is in:

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]
    600,000 trials (Randomized)
    Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
    222321.49% 52,13085,4511,346132,18110,683
    40%39.23% 155,877250,30512,90269,89215,285
    40%39.28% 156,102250,68212,90269,92415,213

    or

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]
    600,000 trials (Randomized)
    Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
    KKKQ25.19% 104,966196,36499500
    40%37.35% 116,683196,4569,204171,24430,624
    40%37.46% 117,138197,4989,180171,17630,624


    But the hand I had had no low and was baby trips and for completing it, wasn't even suited and had a dangler:

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]
    600,000 trials (Randomized)
    Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
    5x 5y Jz 5w10.38% 42,34982,1257800
    40%44.86% 176,384253,75910,487132,88322,134
    40%44.76% 175,843253,59910,469132,14122,134

    Primal scream!

    The more you think about it, the sicker. Do I think a pair of fives will win unimproved? Hoping to pair the Jack for the win?

    And, for icing of the cake, the real numbers:

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation[/URL]
    658,008 trials (Exhaustive)
    Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
    5s 5h Jc 5d5.74% 23,33952,257000
    Kc Kh 3s 8s45.78% 219,591339,890054,216162
    4h 6h 6d As48.47% 224,445265,8610270,526162

    Can't recall seeing single number equities this way before for a hand I played.


    This is an example of when blind defending goes too far

    Last edited by plaaynde; 11-29-2014 at 03:32 PM.
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    11-30-2014 , 06:50 AM
    See you around 7$, learned a lot this month.






    Nice to quit while the ev-graphs are going in the right direction.
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    11-30-2014 , 10:20 AM
    me and Hunmatt doing a litle propbet of who can play most games from 1st december 06:00 CET till 22nd december 06:00. just 100$ but will still be good for motivation and a lot of games will run as we will both be very active so join in, action will be good.

    gl matt
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