So I'm a PLO8 newbie and as a Hold Em player I know how "how do I play poker" questions sound, so I'll try to make this as specific as possible. just a few questions about pocket pairs:

1. Is setmining generally profitable in PLO8? (specifically MTTs) is there a certain stack depth where it becomes unprofitable if youre too shallow?

2. what kind of secondary equity do you need in your starting hand to limp pocket pairs?

3. Do you ever raise if first in with pocket pairs, which ones? and how does stack depth effect this range at shallower stacks? what about 3betting?

I know these are super general questions and all of these questions are correctly answered by "it depends" but im just looking for general answers to use as a baseline

problem with setmining in O8 is it leads way to you going up against really powerful draws that either scoop you or take half. often, the times you feel comfortable getting it in, so does your opponent.

one thing to consider is the ranking of the pairs. if you're shipping it with low ranking cards (22-88) it often means there is a low draw in play. if no low draw is in play, that means higher ranking cards are out there, and the hands that ship against you tend to have some kind of equity against you whether it's a draw, two pair, or a higher set so you never really feel comfortable.

if you go higher (99-KK), there's less to worry about but again, it's the whole draw dynamic of omaha. a set in omaha is not a set in holdem.


either way, if i've decided to limp any pocket pairs, i'd first and foremost evaluate it as a complete, playable hand. so for me a hand like QQ92 is not at all playable, whereas QQ9J is much more so, because it's not just QQ, it's QQ with functional side cards. since we're talking o8, decent low cards completely change the complexion of your hand, so if i was on the button i'd be all too happy to limp in with QQ56, as an example.

as far as raising first, i don't think this is really easy to answer. i mean, do you know what you're doing postflop? can you fold to 3bets preflop? all that stuff matters. but let's just say if you're new, then you probably don't wanna be doing any EP raising preflop with pocket pairs. and of course the disclaimer is that AA doesn't count.

wanted to add a couple things.

hands that are more speculative become more profitable the deeper you are, where the opposite occurs the shallower you are. in a big bet O8 tournament, stacks get shallower and they ship CONSTANTLY. going hard with pocket pairs is a sure way to get roasted.

also, not saying you do or you don't think like this, but the sooner a new omaha player gets away from a hand being just two cards and closer to a hand being how all four cards work together, the better you'll do.

Thanks for the great response! so it sounds like pocket pairs are only really good if its part of a run down (like your QQJ9 example) or if it also has a good low draw, like AQQ2 or AQQ3 right?

I guess hands like KJT9 are more valuable than a hand like QQ92 because it has more potential to make a nutted high right/flop a strong draw and easy to get away from and not get into trouble.

is there ever a situation where you would limp QQ92, like if youre on the button with 4 limpers infront of you and you know the BB to be passive pre? flops like QJ3 or AQ9 would be pretty good in that situation right? i can see how either of those flops could become trouble on later streets like a 10 turn on the QJ3 flop and AKxx gets there and now its hard for us to fold.

i think that's a good way to categorize it, or at least how i'd value them. rundowns have general value that allow you to be competitive on a flop that doesn't hit your set, and to provide additional value for when you do. btw i think A2QQ/A3QQ type hands speak for themselves, so i didn't really mention them but i think you get the gist.

i'm pretty loose on the button and for a while i was limping pretty much any 4 if i could see a flop. but i'm also fairly meticulous about which flops i go hard, and overplaying your hand in omaha will be the death of you. so long story short yeah i'd limp that, but it's really hard to think of many flops where you're feeling great, and especially so when your opponents want to go all in at the same time you do.

one thing to consider, which is far more of a factor in omaha than NLH, is SPR's are way more of a thing than you might be used to. so your SPR's 2:1 on an AQ9 flop? cool, good for you. but if your SPR's 10:1+ because it's a limped pot and it goes bet > raise to you and you have mid set and one of your own 9's? not so fun.

thanks for the great advice! I feel like this will really help my game and how i think about it.

The value of QQ is very low in O8. If you run equities QQxx hands will lose on average. They will generally break even in Omaha high. KKxx is generally a breakeven hand in O8.

In other words, pairs are worth the least in O8 compared with any other poker game

oh yeah a good exercise is running PPT all day with stuff you're curious about (QQxx for example) and flops you commonly see or don't have the preparation for.

so that one QQ92 example we talked about: give your opponents ranges of stuff like wraps, A9, Q9, AA, 99 and see how you feel about shipping with a SPR of 2:1 vs something like 10:1 as we talked about. villain repots you and covers you in a 10:1 spr situation? game is hard. but if you understand the relative value of your hand prior to that then you're like "game is ez"