I don't know. Maybe someone else does and will chime in.

I've played cash pot-limit Omaha-8 in some private games but those have been one or two time events.

As I recall, in some past years there have been tables of pot-limit Omaha-8 at the annual 2+2 party in Las Vegas, but I didn't see any pot-limit Omaha-8 at the 2+2 party this past July 5th (last Saturday evening).

Otherwise, I hear of brick and mortar casino cash pot-limit Omaha-8 games materializing here and there, and I've gotten on a waiting list for them, but aside of one tournament in which I played years ago, and the annual 2+2 party, I've never been aware of a pot-limit Omaha-8 game actually materializing in a brick and mortar casino when I've been there.

Some of our on-line posters might have an idea of where you can play on-line for you, if you live in an area where you're allowed to play on-line.

Here are a couple of Google links that might help you find a game:
https://www.google.com/search?client..._l=&gws_rd=ssl

http://www.pokeratlas.com/poker-cash...mit-omaha8-1-2

Be aware that some casinos are notoriously self serving. Sometimes a casino may advertise a game and/or if you telephone someone may tell you there's a certain game... but then when you get there, there's no such game.

This is a newb's thread. My advice to newbs is there are a lot of pot-limit Omaha-8 sharks out there; be very wary of anyone who invites you to play pot-limit Omaha-8 with him/her.

Buzz

Trying to use http://www.propokertools.com/simulations to calculate equity, but I keep getting this error:

Game: Omaha Hi/Lo
Syntax: generic
board: 5hJc10s
hand1: 9d9h10dJs
hand2: AsAcKs10c

Click "Simulate"

Not working - I'm sure it's something basic, but I'm stuck.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Try T instead of 10.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: 5JT

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
9d9hTdJs	44.63%	366	366	0	0	0
AsAcKsTc	55.37%	454	454	0	0	0

Buzz

Nice. Thank you, Buzz. Appreciate all your posts/help on the forum, btw. I've been reading a lot over the past few weeks and learning a ton.

Thanks.

Any suggested material to learn LO8 flop play? I encountered too many situations with no clue what to do, spots like 24xx on A49 rainbow IP HU, A2xx on QT6 two-tone OOP HU, low two pair in a 3 way pot, tons of other ugly situations. c-betting seems spewy, giving up seems exploitable.

Material still available at this time? Look through the book containment thread (a stickee) and look through threads labeled with a in this forum.

I think LO8 flop play depends on the situation. You have to "play poker."

How many players have been dealt cards?

How many players are still active in the hand? How many players are yet to act of the second round?

How much money is already in the pot, and how much is expected to be added? What was the first round action? What has been the second round action when it's Hero's turn to act?

What are the cards of the flop? What are the cards of the Hero's hand?

What is Hero's table image? What are the table images of Hero's opponents?

These are just some of the questions involved in "playing poker."

Post hand histories separately to get opinions of forum members as to how to proceed. Different individuals responding will often have different opinions as to how to best proceed.

Buzz

Silly question for those who knows the rules, but I don't really get it when the board is low.
My hand is A23K, board comes A2378. My HIGH hand is obv two pair, but do my hand qualify for low?
If my opponent have A458. Who wins the low pot?

Your hand makes a low. You can play the A2* out of your hand and the 873 off the board: 8732A.

Your opponent wins low (and scoops). She can play the 54 and make a wheel, 5432A.

To practice some of these counterintuitive lows, try dealing out some boards with four low cards (especially four below a six) and some random Omaha hands. For example, on a 653AQ board, A259 ("live deuce") wins low over A87K even though the A87 can play two unpaired cards. Practice until you intuitively get why that is without having to spend a lot of time calculating. (Hint: a "live card" low is MUCH stronger with four cards six and below on board than with four cards to an eight low).


*You could play the 3 from your hand and the 2 on the board and get the same result.

Hi guys, I'm pretty new to O8 (so new that I just typed 0(zero)8 and had to edit it haha). I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction for any learning resources (books, videos) on heads up omaha hi/lo.

Google it.

https://www.google.com/search?client..._l=&gws_rd=ssl

Buzz

Unfortunately there's so little out there on HU O8 that Buzz's Google suggestion is probably going to be your best bet. I know Deuces Cracked had a video series It's a Tall World After All with Joe Tall playing HU limit HORSE. Maybe they have a few other items in that vein. You can check them out free for a week.

Are you interested in limit, pot-limit, or no-limit?

thanks, but i meant online. a lot of sites have plo8 but only micro stakes. any sites have regular 1/2 plo8 besides stars?

thanks buzz, AKQJT, the games im playing are no limit but i'm open to pot limit

what plo8 softwares do you guys use often?? is there anything like flopzilla where you can input ranges and look at equities?

ProPokerTools is really useful and I use it often, and of course you can try things like HM2 or PT4 but I've tried those two some and they never really caught on with me.

I use ProPokerTools. I also use Wilson for some simulations. I like them both.

I don't know what flopzilla is. (I presume it's software for Texas hold 'em). You can input ranges and look at equities using ProPokerTools.

Buzz

So I was learning hand ranges using propokertools, and shocked to find out that (A8)(KT) was a rank 15 hand, both HU and FR, while (AKQ)J was rank 75 FR and rank 25 HU. I just can't explain why (A8)(KT) was the better hand than (AKQ)J, (AKQ)J should be a better high hand while A8 almost doesnt matter for low in FR.

You have the 75 and 25 backwards, I believe.

The hand that can make a low is much more valuable, HU. Period. Virtually always.

FR it's less clear but I'm guessing it's the ability to make two good flushes that will often hold up multiway, worth removing a Broadway card.

Note that this says nothing about postflop playability (implied odds). The AKQJ can more easily hit the board multiple ways, e.g. KQ2 for top two plus a gutshot or JT2 for top pair plus a huge wheel wrap. I saw this concept called focus in a 2+2 PLO book.

I think ProPokerTools gives (AKQ)J a rank of 28 FR and 73 HU.

Heads up (A8)(KT) can make low while (AKQ)J can't.

If you simulate the two hands against each other heads-up, you can see what a difference being able to make low makes:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

1,086,008 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
Ac8cKdTd	61.51%	472,419	472,419	178,854	476,864	0
AsKsQsJh	38.49%	274,701	434,735	178,854	0	0

If you add hands with random cards and simulate, you can see that low doesn't make such a difference (some, but not as much):

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
Ac8cKdTd	17.42%	47,443	128,268	25,881	15,942	3,595
AsKsQsJh	14.50%	52,006	101,363	26,723	0	0
****	16.96%	34,172	79,501	13,283	84,774	22,373
****	16.97%	34,007	79,507	13,445	85,026	22,234
****	17.04%	34,557	79,866	13,516	85,171	22,238
****	17.10%	34,655	79,929	13,464	85,539	22,440

I'm pretty sure the difference in high wins is mainly due to the Ac8cKdTd hand winning high more often with flushes than the AsKsQsJh hand. I could run the same simulation on Wilson to check, but that makes so much sense to me that it doesn't seem worth firing up my other computer to run the sim. (I'm having trouble with the mouse on the other computer... probably should buy a new mouse for it).

Buzz

I haven't heard about Wilson before, I was curious to try it, checked the site just now, and it said the software was unavailable. Just a lot of information about blackjack and books.

Have to disagree here. Take aqq9 vs aq23 for an example. Pairs are also very strong HU and this can mitigate the absence of a draw to the low.

But aq23 (with a low draw) is objectively ranked as a better hand than aqq9 by ProPokerTools. Below is copied directly from the ProPokerTools site... (and then I made it into a table). The lower the number, the higher the ranking.

Buzz

Sure Buzz but we are talking heads up right? In which case aqq9 has more equity.

AQJT made the generalization that hands that can make a low are always better heads up but this is not really true at all. In fact one of the biggest leaks newcomers to the game have is to overvalue a234 type hands which often do poorly hu as they have limited high potential.

Omahaha,
AQQ9 has the edge against AQ23 hu, equitywise. How ever, AQQ9 has less equity than AQ23 vs a random hand. I.e. pitting AQQ9 and AQ23 against each other, AQQ9 is the favourite, but if villain has a random hand, you should rather pick AQ32. All this considering hot/cold equity (basically a preflop all in)... playability-wise, AQ32 does even better vs the random hand, I'd think.

The PPT ranking shows the same ordering, though it doesn't really capture postflop playability.

Only if they're heads-up against each other.

Against a random hand, ****, A23Q has more equity than AQQ9.

That's not what AQJT wrote.

AQJT wrote "Virtually always."

To me "virtually" can mean "just about."

And I think that is correct.

The reason A23Q is objectively rated higher by ProPokerTools for heads-up play than AQQ9 is because A23Q does better than AQQ9 for heads up play. (But not when those two hands are heads up against each other).

There are many sets of hands in both Texas hold 'em, Omaha-high, and Omaha-8 such that for heads-up play,
A>B and
B>C
but C>A.

I think that is correct. But to go the other way and overvalue hands with no low potential is probably worse.

And whereas A234 lacks high card strength, A23Q, with both an ace and a queen, does not lack sufficient high card strength.

Buzz