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Originally Posted by bumblebee99
Not sure if any of my hands warrant their own thread yet as I am very much an out and out beginner at O8, so hope it's ok to put one or two here. If not, I'll start threads.
Fine to put hands here. Fine to put hands in the monthly catch-all (formerly low content) thread. Fine to make a separate thread for each hand (so long as you have at least one very specific question that might involve discussion.
Note that people with different skill levels may respond differently. Note that people with different playing styles may respond differently. Note that people with different playing experiences may respond differently. And all of those are sometimes "correct" for some tables or groups of opponents. This is a discussion forum (often for discussion of strategy and tactics).
Tarvaris has already responded. My guess is the answer provided by Tarvaris is probably fine. I'll answer separately, without first reading Tarvaris's response. It will probably be a different perspective because we have different experiences and backgrounds.
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I really haven't got a clue how I should play this type of hand. I'm just riding along with a High hand, but should I be leading out here with my bottom set/two pair on the flop? C/R ing? Or just fold?
It's
not a fold. Either lead or go for a check/raise on the second betting round (flop).
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SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05, CO posts DB $0.07
Pre Flop: (pot: $0.14) Hero has 7 J 8 8
UTG calls $0.05, MP calls $0.05, CO checks, fold, SB calls $0.03, Hero checks
Fine. Hero doesn't have a very good starting hand, but has posted the big blind and gets to see the flop for free if he so chooses. And that would be my choice with this starting hand.
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Flop: ($0.27, 5 players) A J 8
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $0.05, MP calls $0.05, CO calls $0.05, SB calls $0.05, Hero calls $0.05
I don't like your line of play here. Not at all. Yet it has some merit in that you have successfully disguised your hand. (At least no one will be able to put you on a set of eights for your insipid check/call).
But I'd either directly bet or go for a check/raise. In other words, I'd take a more aggressive line.
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Turn: ($0.52, 5 players) J
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $0.05, MP calls $0.05, CO calls $0.05, fold, Hero calls $0.05
Do I get more aggressive on the turn, knowing that anyone with AJ has me beat - actually after typing that I think the answer is no, even though I know the result!
I, on the other hand, don't know the result yet. Anyone with AJ** or AA** has you beat and there's not much you can do about it. (From what you can see, AJ** or AA** are approximately equally likely). But none of your four active opponents probably has one of those hands.
Some players (but not everybody) always or almost always raise pre-flop with aces. Some players (but not everybody) raise pre-flop with either of these hands. The absense of such a pre-flop raise makes them a bit less likely than normal, but from what you can see, roughly one time out of eight with this many opponents, you're going to lose. That calculation is way, way beyond beginner level. Thus your post probably should have it's own separate thread. I'll leave it here since you started it here, but I'm not going to explain that calculation to any greater depth.
At any rate, you'll usually (seven times out of eight) have a winner for high but one time out of eight you should expect to take a loss. And that's just the way it goes in Omaha-8. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
Moreover, from what you can see on the turn, there are 23/44 missing cards that will enable low on the river and 21/44 missing cards that won't enable low on the river.
So all in all, if you play passively, you should expect to
• scoop about 7/8*21/44=~42%,
• split with low about 7/8*23/44=~46%
• and take it on the chin about 1/8*44/44=~12%.
Something like that.
And that's very good for you. But rather than playing passively on the turn (third betting round), you should be
very aggressive in an attempt to reduce the percentage you'll have to split the pot with low. Hope you can drive out your opponents who are hoping for low. And if you can't induce your low-drawing opponents, at least make them pay through the nose.
This is pot limit and if you can expect someone to bet behind you when you check, you should go for a check/raise. Otherwise, and if you already check/raised on the previous betting round, simply bet the pot.
If you get raised here, back off and just call, and also check/call on the river. The reason is, if you get raised here, you have to seriously consider the distinct possibility that one of your opponents does indeed have AA** or AJ**.
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I obv have no Lo hand, and with just one other villain would've played differently.
I guess you mean on the turn (third betting round). I'm not sure why you would have played it differently with only one opponent. In my humble opinion, you missed a value bet (although not a sure thing) with four opponents.
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River is just a meh call
Impossible for me to determine what's going on with your opponents after your too-passive play on the second and third betting rounds. I think the hand plays differently if you're more aggressive on the second, and especially the third betting rounds.
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Edit: Oh, and I had been at the table for about 30 hands. Most of the villains were ~50/0, I was 5/5 iirc. UTG would donk every flop with a min bet, but not much else any other villains. Still just concentrating on my own cards tbh.
Meh. (shrug)
Now I'll read the response of Tarvaris, but unless I see something grossly wrong, I won't comment. (Tarvaris's response is fine and probably sufficient).
Thanks, Tarvaris.
Buzz