I played 30 hrs in two day span at orleans in LV, if you were at teh 4-8 tables you prolly know who I am

I ended up being down 300$ or close to it. I only played like 3% of my hands and made 3 bad rookie decisions were I wasnt disciplined at all and lost prolly 60-75$ in those 3 hands.


other then that i have no ****ing clue where I went wrong, I felt being tight at the tables at these loose passive would give me small winrate but it didnt happen, I got blinded off and in several hours even after winning a pot I would be down 40-60% of my BI just from me folding.


everyone at table thought i played too tight but they were playing A LOT of hands and seeing flops cheaply with muiddle connectors and whatnot, i tried to loosen up with hands such as A5o if it was just for teh BB n the dealer or CO but I am jus tpuzzled at how I was such a big loser for having played super tight. and no it cant be variance


any thoughts? I only played hands with A2, A3 or A45 if it was suited or LP only for a BB call, as well as other hands free from BB

did I just play too tight, i thought tightest player at table had a chance to be a small winner??

Couple issues. Yes, tightest player has a small chance of winning, as does the worst.

From what you wrote, it seems you were a nut low chaser and you high hand/draw consisted of a wheel. That greatly limits your winning. Low hands can expect to hit about 2/3 s of the hands I believe. That would suggest you completely miss a 1/3 of the hands you play. In a multi way hand, the probability of having another low to cut your take is real.

You greatly limit your chances of winning when you poll lay as tight as you did. I'd suggest searching for some O8 discussion, courses, etc....

We also have a pretty active discord group that is all about the omaha.

Thirty hours is a pretty small sample size. Maybe you were dealt 700-800 hands. Anything can happen in such a small sample.

Did you think you were especially unlucky in a few big pots? Maybe losing to a one- or two-outer on the river, or missing everything when you flopped the nut flush draw plus the nut low draw with backup? Sometimes the outcome on two or three big pots can make or break your session.

At the same time, playing for 30 hours in a two-day span is a lot. I have a tendency to play long sessions myself, but I know I'm sharpest in the first 4-6 hours. After 8-10 hours, I get tired and my play deteriorates, especially if I'm losing and frustrated. It's much easier to maintain my composure and focus when I'm not fatigued.

Maybe you're exaggerating, but playing only 3% of starting hands does sound excessively tight. That's 21-24 hands in 30 hours, or one hand every three or four orbits. When you play that tight, do you then feel entitled to win the few hands you do play? Maybe that sense of entitlement affected your postflop decisions.

Or maybe the few pots you won simply weren't large enough to overcome the rake. Some people think $4/$8 games are unbeatable; I think they are, but it depends on the game. Was the action good the whole time you played? That can be another downside of playing marathon sessions: you end up playing short-handed in the wee hours of the morning when the pots aren't that big.

It's hard to know what advice to give you. If you're unsure what you're doing, maybe only play a four-hour session next time, then describe one or two hands you thought you played well, one or two hands you thought you butchered, and one or two hands you folded preflop but wonder if doing so was wrong. It's easier to respond to specific hand histories than a general sense of befuddlement.

Good luck.

A couple of comments:

There are several adjustments players should make going from 9 handed to 10 handed.

The skill level of other players at the table will have a big impact on your winrate but its still safe to assume this 4/8 game was beatable.

You might have been winning but not enough to cover rake.

Its not clear that you were playing hands aggressively preflop or postflop, which has a huge impact on win rate.

In o8 you want to adjust your strategy based on the errors you seem opponents make the most often. There are many types.

The strategy how to play and hand selection for which a4. A5 hands to play gets pretty complicated and its unlikely you were playing them correctly.

Playing 3% of hands is way too tight, it means you are playing any average of 1 hand per 3 orbits when you should be playing closer to 3 hands per 1 orbit. In practically every limit game, playing too tight is very costly. Moreover, super tight players are easier to exploit and get less value from good hands because their range is so narrow and transparent

Also not sure i understood correctly, were you folding suited a2 and a3 hands? If so which ones to what action.

some very simple math (and pardon the assumptions if they are totally inaccurate)

30 hrs
@ 25hands/hr (assumption)

=750 hands played

avg. 9handed (assumption)

= +/-83 orbits played.
@ $6/orbit (blinds)

forced bets for the 30 hrs = $498.00

you state you lost $300 for the 30hrs. so you did nearly $200 better than if you folded 100%


3% of 750 hands is 22.5 ~1 hand every 1hr and 20 minutes

lets call it 23 hands played

you made the $200 in the 23 hands which is like a net +$8.70/hand


I guess to go further on this tack requires what the avg. pot-size was.
but then with you being so tight i imagine it affected the action somewhat when you didn't fold (smaller than average pots when you were involved).
however you did better than just being gifted the blinds for those 23 hands
$8.70 > $6

although we can say if you thought you could break-even playing 3% of hands (23 hands) and the blinds cost you $498 then
498/23 = 21.65
you would have had to net +$21.65 /hand played.
does this seem possible? (win avg. $35 16 times while lose avg. $10 7 times)


3% of hands = approx. AA with a wheel card and a suited ace -plus- A2 with 2 broadways and a suited ace -plus- A2 with a 3-6 and a suited ace (excludes hands with trips, a 9, or a low pair).

so if you never folded a hand represented by this range and among the 23 hands you did play were hands outside this range as you indicated, it would seem you got unlucky in the deal.

To be honest, the first 8 hours I was cardead and the hands I did fold I got lucky not to play since I would have lost a lot a lot of mmore money. Not sure if beintbcardead saves me money or not. I def got quartered 4x in first 6 hours which prolly was my fault. I played all suited a2 and usually a3. On Sunday I started playing at 2pm diddnt leave till 7am since my table would have 5-7 players see flop for 4$ pre. I was chasing nuts as I felt that would be profitable.

I feel there has to be a huge rack though, I just don’t get how I lost so much even if I played those 3 hands correctly where I lost 70$ total( chasing flush got there with nut low draw and paying off when I forgot board paired..oops)

There were 2 hands I folded that maybe I could have played LP that didn’t have A where I would have won 40-60$ but those hands are usually labeled trash hands.



It’s just super frustrating especially in the first session where I played for 16+ hours and couldn’t be profitable even at a table where they were willing to pay me
Off, they liked me since I kept talking so they would still call my flop bets.

I didn’t raise much pre, which I should have done but during my session... I would have lost more.


Thank you for doing math I feel that if you guys were me tho you would have done way better. Maybe call some hands LP that I don’t want ??

I played any a2 hand especially suited. Only time I played a2 down was off suit, a289 to a super old guy who played like me 2 bet I folded.


A gambler, yes I could have scooped a 60-70$ pot when I had nut but draw final card but missed. But even if I win that pot, I don’t think I’m a winner still.


Maybe it was variance but I’m too stubborn

small sample.

rake trap games are difficult to beat.

stuck nearly forty big bets is absolutely nothing in limit games. happens to very winning players regularly. still, its good to start with the assumption that you can play better.

probably too tight, overall. close to correct in ep, way way too tight in lp and blinds. select hands with at least *some* nutty features and rely on flops to improve the non-nutty parts.

high only hands can rake in games like this. generally want to see flops cheaply, usually with position, and jam when they flop well. can raise decent ones pre after many vpips as card removal will help you flop well more often.

possible that you're not playing as well as you could post. playing long sessions when stuck can also be improved upon. Play long when winning, play short when stuck. those games will be there next time.

thansk munga but I do feel I wasnt playing optimally.

biggest factor was only playing hands with A in them.

also LP what are some high only hands that i should be looking for? 4 cards 9 or higher? LP or button for a BB call?


seems really disgusting if I played "decent" but down that money only because of rake though, i dont buy it. I did make some GREAT laydowns that I could have lost a lotr of money on some hands though, but thats in situations were a lot of beginner would play those hands and get trapped.

I should have raised way more prolly to maximize my wins? I would raise a2 suited on button with wheels but prolly should have raised any A2 wheel wheel card as high as 7 next time if A was suited. didn traise one time due to "variance" with how many people were seeing flops

Yeah, you play way too tight. That's pretty much most beginner o8 player's biggest leak these days.

I think winning 24-26$ per hand is def doable especially at some of hte tables. at least thats what I think.

thanks for the analysis

out of curiosity thepleasure, what books have you read and/or training have you received?

just hwangs section really, which i thought was very good.


also my first time playing I didnt want to draw to the 2nd or 3rd nuts, as there were a coupel times if I wouldve I would have lost huge pots.


i guess im arrogant ignorant thinking if I played that tight I would bea small winner but that obv wasnt the case, still kinda perplexed but I guess at the end of this all lesson I need to learn is I need to loosen up more?

think the only lesson we could all agree on is that you can't really come to any determination over such a small sample size.

If you feel like your hands materialised at a normal rate, you got unlucky at a normal rate and you feel you didn't play bad, it's usually the rake.

If you've ever played $0.10/$0.20 Stud 8 on Stars, you know what that feels like.

is it a small sample size though? thats 30 hrs of live play, especially the first 12 hrs were against super juicy opponents going 5-6 way to see flop. i made this thread becuase I felt it wasnt just sample size.,. mayb eit is though


fair point there

i'm sure you weren't playing perfectly or even optimally starting out, but i'm also even more sure 30 hours isn't enough to come to any definite conclusions.

Oh, well if you played a whole 30 hours then I see your point, that rules out variance.

Playing 3 hands per orbit in a 9 handed game is playing 33% of hands. That's way too loose in limit O8. While 3% is somewhat too tight. Limit O8 is one game where simply being the tightest player at the table can win you money long run.

Having said that, OP is being ridiculous if he thinks he can state "it isn't variance". He just played literally about 15-20 hands of poker. This post is a joke. No offense.

OK so now we're getting to some real meat. You only played 3% of hands, and you didn't even raise those? Come on now.

What difference does it make?? You weren't in most of those hands! Dude, again, you played like 20 hands tops. Let's get serious.

The orleans is ten handed. Also said closer to 3 out of 10 and it would have been better if i said closer to 25 out of 100.

yeah I absolutely understand your point, I wouldnt have made this thread if I could play online since i could try out my style and see long term after 5-8 months if its variance or truly me just being too ****ign nitty. just felt that with how loose the games where and me nut peddlign would have made for me to be somewhat profitable even a little. I prolly do need ot loosen up



also i didn't raise a lot of suited A2 or AA2/AA3 hands because just felt at my table variance would have been up and down but that thinking is ****ing stupid i guess.


both sessions I just felt i was being blinded out lol which is twhy I made this thread, aftyer 3 hours I would have looked down and see 50% of my stack gone even after winning a kill pot and not losing any pots lol.

I guess once I can play FLO8 consistently on the internet I can really see where my game is at and where my leaks are.

given the 25hands/hr assumption the numbers lend themselves to 4hrs and not 3hrs,
4hrs is 100hands, you claim to have played just 3 hands in that time and if the table was full then you paid the blinds for 10 orbits.
how can you not see that the likely outcome is your stack has shrunk?????


internet our not, it should also be as clear that more than ~750 hands are necessary if you want to rule out randomness.
additionally, you seem to focus on the 'results' if you want to judge your competence consider the decisions and not the results, and discuss the decisions and not the results.

This forum needs a "like" button.