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Omaha/8 Discussions of Omaha High-Low Split (Eight or Better) Poker.

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Old 03-05-2019, 10:58 PM   #1
DalTXColtsFan
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Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

$5/$10 9-handed standard straightforward loose-passive table.

MP limps and I'm on the button with A2KQ

I assume this is a trivial raise - I have position, a great two-way hand and the BB is likely to have a very wide calling range.

BB and MP call.

Flop (6sb) J93

BB bets, MP folds.

In LHE (my best game) this is a no-brainer raise - we call it the free card play. A gutshot, a backdoor nut flush draw and a backdoor low draw, not to mention three overcards, aren't much to write home about on their own, but together they give us tons of possibilities - we would love to raise and have BB check to us on the turn so we can see 2 more cards if we want or even go ahead and bet the turn if we pick up a strong draw.

I would have to have a solid read that the free card play wouldn't work to not try it here.

Thoughts?
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Old 03-06-2019, 04:07 AM   #2
monikrazy
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

I am not a fan of raising here, especially without reads on bb. This flop does not favor your range and your hand is strong enough that you will be able to peel a ton of turn cards anyway and you can still semibluff. The main reason to call instead of raising is that the smaller spr favors hero in position, inflating the pot generally makes it easier for bb to play perfectly.

Of course, for balance, raising at some frequency can be fine, but its not required and i still strongly prefer call.
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:32 AM   #3
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

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Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
the smaller spr favors hero in position.
Just to clarify you got that this is a fixed-limit hand right?

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Old 03-06-2019, 11:35 AM   #4
Tintinpoker
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

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Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
$5/$10 9-handed standard straightforward loose-passive table.

MP limps and I'm on the button with A2KQ

I assume this is a trivial raise - I have position, a great two-way hand and the BB is likely to have a very wide calling range.

BB and MP call.

Flop (6sb) J93

BB bets, MP folds.

In LHE (my best game) this is a no-brainer raise - we call it the free card play. A gutshot, a backdoor nut flush draw and a backdoor low draw, not to mention three overcards, aren't much to write home about on their own, but together they give us tons of possibilities - we would love to raise and have BB check to us on the turn so we can see 2 more cards if we want or even go ahead and bet the turn if we pick up a strong draw.

I would have to have a solid read that the free card play wouldn't work to not try it here.

Thoughts?
The free card play is pretty interesting but I don't think I would do it here:
-If you get raised, it failed. And you surely might get raise by 2 pairs+ who doesn't want you to see another low card on the board.
-If the player only calls (most likely), you shoved more money into the pot. Which means you will have better odds to call his bets on later street (most likely river). That's the definition of compounded mistakes.

So I would just call and see what comes on the turn. If he bets again, I am just calculating the odds to see if I am going with it or not.
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Old 03-06-2019, 03:07 PM   #5
monikrazy
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

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Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
Just to clarify you got that this is a fixed-limit hand right?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Yes.

The smaller spr still favors hero.
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Old 03-06-2019, 04:50 PM   #6
Johnnycher
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

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Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
$5/$10 9-handed standard straightforward loose-passive table.

MP limps and I'm on the button with A2KQ

I assume this is a trivial raise - I have position, a great two-way hand and the BB is likely to have a very wide calling range.

BB and MP call.

Flop (6sb) J93

BB bets, MP folds.
I honestly didn't have to read another word to know that this is a clear raise.
Why? For all of the reasons already stated. You're repping such a strong hand and can continue your story with a lot of turn cards. Who cares if he 3bets flop? He's doing that so infrequently, and a majority of the time, your exact plan comes to fruition. You'll be able to bet sexy low spade turns,
10s, or whatever you want to do!

Now, I'm not saying you raise this spot 100% of the time, but if you read the setup of this hand and you NEVER consider raising here, you're just playing cards.
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:37 AM   #7
greybeard33
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

Agree with monikrazy here. Itís a loose-passive table so would expect donk bettor to 3-bet a lot.

Would rather raise turn with more equity and double the bet size.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:03 PM   #8
Munga30
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

you absolutely can get away with raising this flop against the typical 5/10 player pool. but it's better poker to call. This isnt for value, it's a poor bluff because donker isnt folding much, and it weakens the range of hands you call with on flop.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:50 PM   #9
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

I like raising the flop in O8 in many, many situations. But I don't really think this is one of them. It's not really analagous to the free-card play in LHE because that play is usually used in spots where your draw is decent enough that you would like the see the river regardless of what the turn is.

But in this spot, there will be many turns where getting a free river is not worth much. If the turn is the 9c or even 2h, you just wasted at least one extra flop bet on a hand where you have almost no equity. At the other end if the spectrum, if the turn is 4s or Ts, do you actually want a free card, or do you want keep up the bluff? Had you just called the flop, you can still raise the turn as a semi-bluff.
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:35 PM   #10
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

imho (and omaha/8 is not my best game) you do not have enough equity to make a free-card play here and you should just call and let the hand develop. You do not have a wrap for high... you have some back-door draws, and a gutshot...

in hold'em its omg two pair jam
in omaha omg two-pair getting scooped

pre-flop beyond obvious raise
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:53 PM   #11
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

In those passive games, a raise usually means AAxx or A2Wx or maybe BBBBs (B:broadways). Meaning that you are quite face up with not much. Vilain will probably put you on that board on AA or TQBB if you raise.
He probably bets with at least 2 pairs or trips in that situation and will likely raise. I don't see what's a raise brings unless you want to scare vilain and hope (in this passive game) to have him checking on turn to get you an extra card at a lower price (you'll save 1 BB if not raised). Otherwise, it's adding $$ in a pot where you are not favorite.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:00 PM   #12
DeathDonkey
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

For what itís worth the free card play in lhe is terrible and only works well vs brain dead opponents.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:14 PM   #13
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

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Originally Posted by DeathDonkey View Post
For what it’s worth the free card play in lhe is terrible and only works well vs brain dead opponents.
Thanks for the advice. Watching the U.S. Poker Open 2019 $25K Mixed Game Final Table on Poker Go right now. Mario Ho was complementary of your prowess in 2-7 tripledraw, O8 and LHE in particular.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:47 PM   #14
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Re: Low-stakes FLO8 flop spot

Close your eyes on my bust out hand - itís ugly
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