I open A25ddd-T7hh OTB.
SB folds
BB calls.

Flop QT5scc, so no BDFD for me.

BB checks, I bet.

- Given this is big O, how often do we like c-betting here with what's more of a kind of low/mid strength hand? In PL I would check back frequently here to shift some strength into my check back range.

- Getting c/r'd here totally blows, but I'm not sure I can find a fold, and I don't know if that's a mistake either. However, by checking back, we give BB carte blanche to lead any number of turns and steal it away from us when we have the best hand.


Thoughts? Thanks

I would bet. We have so many better hands to checkback and can call a raise no sweat.

i have a hard time thinking better hands i'd be wanting to check back here, personally

My wording may not have been clear enough.. i wasnt talking about checking back better 2 pairs and sets, though of course we should check back a portion of those.

But hero should check back many hands with better high equity and overall nut potential. For that reason i do not see much benefit in checking back bottom 2 pair with very limited redraws.

Betting now should be +ev and will lead to many situations where villain can make an error. I feel like there are very few advantages to not betting now.

no, i wasn't thinking that you were meaning that anyway.

but you know like say i have J9cc here, KJcc, AKKcc, AAcc: these are hands i'd consider better than T5 and i also would be very unlikely to check back in a limit, since we can't get blown off our hand on the non-nut combo draws, and would happily call a raise (and sometimes jam) with the latter two.

Ehh.. those arent really the type of hands i was talking about anyway.. i was talking about moderate strength hands while your examples are closer to premium. Even so you should still pick some checkbacks though it will be based on all 5 cards

Based on what you have posted so far it sounds like you might want to study the theory for this spot a bit. A good place to start is by asking who has the range advantage pre-flop and then the implications on this board texture.

Very good posts by monikrazy.

yeah i think maybe i did misinterpret "better hands."

but yeah possibly like A2LLLcc, AT, KJ, A289 etc. i assume we're talking about: things where you have some slimmer equity against an actual legit hand, but instantly turns into a great raising situation having improved by the turn.

What's bb's table image and what's yours? Cash or tournament? Would really like more information about you vs villain dynamics.

Lets just assume it's the first hand at a new table. A very wet board that favors his range. More than half the deck can kill our hand.

I would check the flop and bet the turn if checked to again. Check the river if he calls the turn. Not the spot where we need to gamble for several big bets. I wouldn't worry about him exploiting us yet. If he donks the turn we can fold or raise on a low card.

Our flop check range needs to include more hands than just the one's that completely missed. This way we can exploit the villain by bluff catching with two pair type hands when he tries to exploit our percieved weakness on the flop.

It's hard to give the right answer without knowing the actual table dynamics.

I could see BB often donking the flop w his QT534 type hands, for value/protection - esp if he has a blocker to the FD but doesn't have a FD himself, or has a weak FD and 2 pr.

I think this could be part of a somewhat balanced/reasonable xb range. But if BB has a donking range here and has checked, I'd prob b/c in limit Big O. Since we don't have any blockers to the FD, on the turn I'd x/b all clubs and any spade that doesn't give us a wheel draw. If a 3rd spade or club comes on the river, I don't think we can call w/o a boat or the nut low

Hmm, interesting.

Most villains I'm playing in this game have a donking range that includes those particular flush draws on these flop textures (HHL + FD). This villain in particular for sure will be leading out his flush draws as well - something I learned as of more recently.

So in his case would it make more sense to have a higher betting frequency on club turns, if he doesn't donk the flop, but instead check/calls?

In limit, with backdoor nut low draw, I might check back, then pop him on turn if I turn low draw. Must follow up with a bet on river, if played this way, regardless of what comes.

Played this way, you allow the opponent to steal the turn on any high card, though.