Hey guys. I'm just looking for some help/advice on how to improve and take my game to the next level playing limit BigO8. I am fortunate enough to play in a really juicy 10-20 game that goes off a few times a week and has a lot of weak loose losing players in it. I am a winning player and do well at the regular 4card LO8 but for some reason I am just break even in this BigO game. I know it has to be me and because I find myself blaming it on luck far to often. So with that said are there any tips on strategy, math, etc. that you guys can provide? Thanks and sorry for this being so long.

I am also pretty new to Limit Big O but have played a lot of FL08.

Just some thoughts to get the ball rolling...it seems like middling cards can actually be somewhat valuable despite being generally crap in O8 since the extra card puts straight draws on steroids. For example on a board of 78KQ, JT965 has a 23 card straight draw with 17 outs to the nuts. I'm not saying play all the middle cards, but if it is connected like we are looking for in typical PLO hands, it might be worth a look at flopping a wrap if the action isn't too heavy.

Paired boards are extremely dangerous since it's so easy for someone to have the random dangler for at least trips. Just walk away unless you have a significant piece or draw.

Backdoor low draws on the flop seem worth the effort for a bet if you have at least the 3 lowest non-board cards and maybe some backdoor wrap possibilities.

I'm such a sucker for suited Ace hands in O8 and PLO and I think I am overplaying them in Big O... someone help!

I'd love to see this thread develop into a discussion of all the strategic differences between LO8 and Big O. I'll mention a few obvious ones I've noticed:

If the low is enabled, the winning low hand is the nut low even more often in Big O than it is in LO8, and you're more likely to see two or more players with the nut low in the same hand (assuming the game is full ring and loose).

In LO8, pocket Aces have some showdown or bluff-catching value on specific board textures: (1) when there's three-of-a-kind on the board, like JJJ64, and (2) when the board is paired but no straight, flush, or low is possible, like 46K96 rainbow. In Big O, it's more likely someone will have quads in the first scenario and at least trips in the second, so unimproved Aces aren't worth much.

In Big O, I have more outs to improve if I flop trips versus a set. If my hand is KKxxx and the flop is KT3, I have 7 outs to improve on the flop and 10 outs to improve on the river (assuming I'm not holding any of the cards that could potentially pair the board). But if my hand is Kxxxx and the flop is KK3, I have 12 outs to improve on the turn and 12 outs to improve on the river (assuming I don't have any pairs, trips, or quads in my starting hand).

tom chambers has some pretty decent breakdowns of big o8 stuff on RIO, if you guys have elite pro sub. mostly just discussed hand breakdowns and distributions, but then also he picked some random hands across set flops to talk about equity as well.

As you increase the amount of cards players are dealt, chopping for one half of the pot or another is a more regular occurrence, so the value of your draw depends progressively more on your nut backdoors and exclusive nut draws (eg nut flush cannot be shared by another player).

So I see why you might want to think a huge middle wrap is worth a look @tuds38, but first you often should cut your pot odds in half because many of your straight draws make a low (and someone WILL have a playable low worthy of showdown in 5 or 6 card o8), and then reduce them even more because it is likely someone makes the same high as you when you make your straight.

Since it's limit, the pots are multiway very often with many players finding all sort of excuses to stay in the hand, so this is even more pronounced.

So to reiterate, nut flush draws, straight flush draws, nut boat draws go up in value, straight draws go down in value, even wraps, and all around, the quality of hand required to win at showdown is higher. And cards which block those "exclusive nuts" hands that are in your hole cards (eg having 3 or 4 spades in your holecards with nut flush draw) are more of a blight on your hand than in 4 card.

That's a good point that if you have trips it is a stronger boat draw than a set, or you could have the nut full house with 3 overcards as a redraw. I have had some hands where I overplay top set for the current nuts... almost seems like you *need* to fill up to win because straights and flushes are so much more likely to be lurking when possible on the board. Obviously not always true but "bare top set" can be pretty precarious multi way.


In L08 any A2xx hand is pretty much a license to see the flop unless you're facing a cold 3-bet from a nit or something. I think there are plenty of A2xxx hands that should be folded in Limit Big O, particularly in early position or facing a single raise from a tightish player.

What are some thoughts on the types of dry A2xxx hands that should be given up? I'm thinking like A2 with any three cards 7 to J should generally be tossed unless you also have the suited ace. But something like A2KQ9 without a suited ace might be worth a look for the high hand potential.

23xxx hands without another wheel card should probably be tossed unless you can limp in on the button or sb. Maybe 23678 could sneak in but very tough to scoop.

So I've been playing this some live, and I'm curious to know what others have been observing as the game matures a bit. Have some random thoughts:

I'll always contend that the more nutty/showdowny of a hand you have, the better (pretty much what lucius said in his excellent post).

But some hands I've been struggling a bit with are things like [A4][5Q]Qds (suited to a4 and Q5) in CO, unopened, or [A5][6K]Kds in same spot. Hands like these I feel I inherently want to raise to try and secure a HU pot or chances my SD value is good, but then I also feel like it ends up not being worth it. I don't think raising is a good idea but I also feel like we shouldn't be folding in games where we can often see a flop for one bet.

How do we feel about hands like A[35][QT] from MP in a loose passive game?

How do we feel about hands like A2[67]8 in EP in these types of games?

Limited live bigO experience here, but i have observed the following:

- BigO can be more profitable than LO8 due to the fact that more players miss play their hands.
- If I'm drawing to flush it better be the nuts or go home(full ring).
- will only draw to the high end straight unless the dummy end affords me the nut low
- If the flop is paired will immediately discard all flushes and straights.
- I apply higher hand selection standards for the simple fact that I'm playing with an extra card ( adjustments needed for short handed or late position no raises in front.

would love to hear feed back and more pointers, this is a great thread.

While reverse implied odds of weak hands are a big factor, the above really shouldn’t be true since equities run closer together.