Has anyone ever seen this before?

https://caniwin.com/poker/omahahilopre.php

It lists equity of hilo starting hands vs a field of 10 random start hands.

The table shows your equity vs a field of random holdings, it would be much more aligned to what happens in fold/shove poker rather than in deeper stacked play.

The table suggests that,
Qx 4- 3x 2- Queen hi suited, has more equity vs a random field of 10 than
A- Q- 6- 2- rainbow

Intuitively I thought any decent A2xx would hold more equity vs a random holding than any 23xx, i guess im too used to opponents having non random hands.

Even 4432 single suited and QQJJ single suited both hold more equity than both AJ72, J suited and A258 rainbow.

Top 20% hands included things like
KQJJ, Q hi suited
A556
JJ23
233Q
23JT

hands like
A589
A567
22J5
KT35
are only just in the top 50%,


Has anyone ever seen a similar chart for vs non random holdings?

This is not a very useful chart because most of the time you are not really interested in how well a hand performs in a 10 way all-in spot.

Hands that can make high hands that can win vs 9 opponents are very much overrated (given the number of cards out there, this is almost always pairs and high flush draws). This is because if you make a nut flush or boat, you win half the pot while vs 9 opponents the low nuts probably only gets a quarter or less.

I'd highly recommend looking at the propokertools hand rankings instead, they are much more informative.

I work with NLO8/PLO8/FLO8 Solvers. If you are interested in very accurate preflop simulations or any desired information/ranges/etc. packed in excel files let me know at PM. I have solved MTT, SNGs, and HU.

I have not seen a chart although I've done a lot of work with the Pro Poker Tools simulator website. I play in a game that is pretty short stacked a lot of the time. The stakes are $5/5 with a mandatory straddle which is mostly in the $25 to $50 range. Buy ins range from $500 to $2,000. Of course some big stacks can be made, but generally you are looking at a low of 10BB poker with $500 stacks and $50 straddle! Ranging to a high of maybe 200BB with a $25 straddle and a $5,000 stack.

Point being, as stacks shorten, the game play tends toward preflop all in equities. And obviously at short stacks, there are often multiway preflop all in pots, from 2 to 5 players.

So your chart might not be very useful in these situations, but do some work with the simulator. You will find some interesting things when you plug in reasonable hands for people to be all in with preflop. For example, if people tend to shove with the typical A2xx, 2346, AA48, A3KQ, then traditional "bad" hi/lo hands start to go up in value. The reasons they are "bad" no longer apply. These hands are getting in each other's way, and now T987 starts to become a monster (in this context, it means equity of over 25% in a 5 way hand).

Run some scenarios and see what you come up with.

Need to work with HU and 3-handed instead of 10, anything more than 3 isn't really worth all of the effort involved except maybe a few specific situations.

Never thought of it like this. Just ran some simulations and you're spot on. Thanks for the tip.

I've been going deep in the Ignition MTTs but getting blinded away and failing when it's down to 3 - 4 tables (they typically pay 18). I haven't grasped that "bad" hands improve so dramatically when stacks are short. I bubbled yesterday and came here for exactly this insight.

I'm amazed to see that a hand I would consider terrible like 89TTss is slightly ahead of A258.

Hand Equity Scoops Wins Hi Ties Hi Wins Lo Ties Lo
As2d5c8h 49.49% 373,277 373,277 0 633,856 0
8d9cthtd 50.51% 384,282 712,731 0 0 0

Sure, pick a rainbow hand sharing a card with undercards.

Or maybe pick a range...

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
8d9cthtd	42.98%	176,599	338,178	1,356	0	0
A2	57.02%	260,466	260,466	1,356	311,425	0

Even that is not a very large edge. Such a strange coin flippy game we play.

Back in like 2008 I was killing the poker stars $16.50 9 seater omaha hi lo games.

My strategy was pretty much sit out (only play top 5%) until there are 4 guys left. Then I start to open up a lot wider, If I build a stack im pot betting top 66%. If they fold I pick up half a starting stack or so in blinds and if they call im getting an amazing price with the blinds in the pot as Im rarely less than 42% equity.

That could never work in holdem due to the stark difference in starting hands.

I am new to the boards and cannot PM but am very interested in purchasing your information. Please contact me somehow. My personal email is djasenglenn@gmail.com

Hazelasty, would love to hear more about this work. timothy.friese@gmail.com

Yeah would love to have a look. lukegregory85@gmail.com

Huge lurker in these forums and can't PM but very interested in what you have to offer. Contact me at RobertJT@gmail.com