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Old 09-04-2017, 06:41 PM   #1
FRGCardinal
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Diamond Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

The game is an 8-handed live Big O 1/2/5 game and HERO brings in UTG+1 with;
A 2 9 J K
3 players behind HERO call, and blinds each complete.

FLOP ($27): 9 9 7

Blinds check to HERO, who checks, MP checks, but HJ fires $20. BTN calls, blinds fold, HERO calls, MP folds

TURN ($85): 4

HERO thinks and checks, noticing HJ has picked up a stack. HJ declares "$100." HERO asks the dealer, "How much can he make it?" And dealer corrects player, "$90," tossing two red chips back to HJ's stack. BTN folds. HERO calls.

RIVER ($265) A

HERO bets pot ($270). HJ angrily asks, "How the f*** are you still in the pot?" And folds, flashing 77 in the process.

Thoughts on all streets appreciated.
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:06 PM   #2
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

I kind of understand your thinking on the flop, but still I'd rather bet-call or even give some though to c/r. People are going to overplay their nines against your perceived range.

Turn and river ok.
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Old 09-04-2017, 10:56 PM   #3
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

Raise pre.

Bet flop or at least C/R it as played. I DON'T understand your thinking there. Even in the worst case scenario that someone flops a boat you'd have ~9-10 outs for the high and the nut backdoor low draw. Other times the fact that you raised preflop might get you action from flush/straight draws, depending on your image and how bad your opponents are.

Turn as played is fine, though you should have been all-in by then.

River as played, I would bet less and try to extract value. Maybe somewhere in the range of half pot or slightly more.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:13 PM   #4
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

Thanks, Czar
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Originally Posted by Czar Chasm View Post
Raise pre.
$10 or $15?'
Quote:
Bet flop or at least C/R it as played. I DON'T understand your thinking there. Even in the worst case scenario that someone flops a boat you'd have ~9-10 outs for the high and the nut backdoor low draw.
I probably should've mentioned the primary villain in this hand has been pretty bad, and has a very wide calling range, even to a raise. Come to think of it, the game has a pretty gambly tenor. The idea of opening with my hand in early position had my concerned with what I would do if one of the good players behind me reraised (almost always AAxxx in this game, sometimes Awwwx).
But if I understand you correctly, given my read that villain cannot have AA in hand, I should ship it all-in OTF because of the exact reasons I called (BDNL draw, potential FD that won't be the nuts, and outs to bigger boats), maximizing my return. Sound right? Villain still had 150ish when he folded.
Quote:
Other times the fact that you raised preflop might get you action from flush/straight draws, depending on your image and how bad your opponents are.
I've quickly developed a reputation as being conservative with this bunch, and have used it to take down hands against the thinking players with marginal holdings.
Quote:
Turn as played is fine, though you should have been all-in by then.

River as played, I would bet less and try to extract value. Maybe somewhere in the range of half pot or slightly more.
My PSB was to discourage a possible call with a junky backdoor low. Although, he may have called with 68 if he had it.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:16 PM   #5
Ray Zee
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

hand played along okay your way. but i hope at no point until the river did you think you had a decent hand.
especially if you knew that he was the kind of player to lay down his full. but if you knew or even suspected that you would have only bet 100 max on the river.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:30 PM   #6
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

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hand played along okay your way. but i hope at no point until the river did you think you had a decent hand.
especially if you knew that he was the kind of player to lay down his full. but if you knew or even suspected that you would have only bet 100 max on the river.
Thanks for the reply, Ray. So, to your point, I put him possibly on 97, or 77 on the flop (with a nonzero chance he's betting trips with top kicker), but definitely after he bombed the turn. At that point, I discounted the flush as being relevant, but decided the outs to the NL made up for it. So do you feel I was being too LOOSE? The other opinions at this point seem to argue for me hammering the flop and/or raising pre.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:35 PM   #7
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

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Originally Posted by Czar Chasm View Post
Bet flop or at least C/R it as played. I DON'T understand your thinking there.
What is your betting range on this flop? Sizing?

I have to admit that I missed that Hero limped (thought "brings in" means raise). That obviously changes things a bit, but still, if we are checking some nines here this is one of the best ones to do it with.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:44 PM   #8
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

its close here so you cant be praised or chided.
your hand had so many ways to get there for something you had to go with it.

i wouldnt want to get all in on the flop. or build it so i might have to fold on 4th.

just the right sized river bet is needed.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:53 PM   #9
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

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Originally Posted by FRGCardinal View Post
Thanks, Czar
$10 or $15?'
I guess it depends how gambly you are and how deep stacks are but I'm going AT LEAST $25 there if not full pot to actually have a shot at driving a player or two out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRGCardinal View Post
I probably should've mentioned the primary villain in this hand has been pretty bad, and has a very wide calling range, even to a raise.
All the more reason to raise right there IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRGCardinal View Post
The idea of opening with my hand in early position had my concerned with what I would do if one of the good players behind me reraised (almost always AAxxx in this game, sometimes Awwwx).
Your hand is 47% vs AAxxx and on the better end of the coinflip vs a234x unless it's also double suited. Point being, you're never in bad enough shape to worry about getting it in pre, unless someone wakes up with AA2 I suppose. My philosophy is always to take the aggressive option whenever it's reasonable because your image will get you more action in the long run. You just have to be able to stomach the swings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRGCardinal View Post
But if I understand you correctly, given my read that villain cannot have AA in hand, I should ship it all-in OTF because of the exact reasons I called (BDNL draw, potential FD that won't be the nuts, and outs to bigger boats), maximizing my return. Sound right? Villain still had 150ish when he folded.
IMO yes, although Amok and Ray Zee apparently NOT thinking this flop is the nuts has me second guessing myself. I do respect both of them a lot... Just seems like a cooler to me if someone has 77/97 and you brick out. I mean just look at at this... how can you ever fold?

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: 979
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
as9skd2djc56.04% 262,278298,8951,646107,7593,723
77***43.96% 187,977299,4591,64637,2943,723

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRGCardinal View Post
I've quickly developed a reputation as being conservative with this bunch, and have used it to take down hands against the thinking players with marginal holdings.
I suppose this changes things a little bit and makes your play more reasonable because you are less likely to get action from hands that are drawing slim/dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRGCardinal View Post
My PSB was to discourage a possible call with a junky backdoor low. Although, he may have called with 68 if he had it.
I apologize I had a brain fart there and didn't even think about the low potential. Your bet is fine and I stand corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
hand played along okay your way. but i hope at no point until the river did you think you had a decent hand.
especially if you knew that he was the kind of player to lay down his full. but if you knew or even suspected that you would have only bet 100 max on the river.
I just can't wrap my mind around how you can say this isn't at least a DECENT hand on the flop. I'm literally scratching my head.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:57 PM   #10
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by amok View Post
What is your betting range on this flop? Sizing?

I have to admit that I missed that Hero limped (thought "brings in" means raise). That obviously changes things a bit, but still, if we are checking some nines here this is one of the best ones to do it with.
Would depend on the lineup and my current image but I'm most likely betting any 9 with an ace or multiple overs. I see your point though that that this is about the least bare-trips friendly board you can get. We has blockers though!!!

Sizing I'd go 15-20ish.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:02 AM   #11
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

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Originally Posted by Czar Chasm View Post
I guess it depends how gambly you are and how deep stacks are but I'm going AT LEAST $25 there if not full pot to actually have a shot at driving a player or two out.
I may not have been clear; the blinds are 1-2, and the bring-in is $5. As the first one in, the most I can make it is $15 (unless a straddle to $10 is out, which it wasn't). After I limped, the remainder limped.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:07 AM   #12
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRGCardinal View Post
I may not have been clear; the blinds are 1-2, and the bring-in is $5. As the first one in, the most I can make it is $15 (unless a straddle to $10 is out, which it wasn't). After I limped, the remainder limped.
Oh jeez, I really need to stop and read more thoroughly before replying clearly. I somehow thought 3 people limped ahead of you. I make it $15, and I'll let the true cash game pros here answer the rest. I'm mainly a tourney donk, after all
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:20 PM   #13
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Re: Flopped trips, turned flush OOP

I'd open it pre, probably to 15.
I'm OK with the flop check. Turn call also fine.
River pot lead is good.
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