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Flopped nut low Flopped nut low

10-17-2017 , 07:43 PM
Relevant reads:

SB is same guy as this hand. Still loose passive, but has been losing lately and overplaying a lot of his perceived value.

BB is tight passive and incredibly showdown bound once he shows interest in a hand (as you'd expect when interest usually involves strong holdings)

MP is loose bad; seen him overplay marginal highs a bunch and don't expect him to chop me for low here often at all (his A2 likely raises pre).

I have (K9)ssA2

Action:

A limp, MP limps, i limp behind (probably should raise, but still trying to flesh out a strat in these games where 6+ see a flop routinely passively), btn limps, sb completes bb checks.

(6 sb): 876 with a spade.

SB bets, BB raises, MP 3 bets, and I...?
Flopped nut low Quote
10-17-2017 , 10:40 PM
Ugh, terrible spot, but in my experience usually someone else will have A2 here also, so you're basically hoping your 1/4 pot doesn't get counterfeited. Maybe I would stick with it if I had raised preflop as it would now be a bigger pot, but as played I just let it go.
Flopped nut low Quote
10-17-2017 , 11:48 PM
Standardish fold, especially given the pre-flop and with no counterfeit protection

And yes, raise pre
Flopped nut low Quote
10-18-2017 , 02:37 AM
against these players i dont like a pre flop raise with a 9 in my hand.
the decision to fold or play is based on what kinds of hands do these guys raise with.
Flopped nut low Quote
10-18-2017 , 02:42 AM
Ray, you really would consider folding preflop here? I don't understand your comment about what they raise with, no one raised in the OP.
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10-18-2017 , 03:18 AM
nothing said about folding pre.
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10-18-2017 , 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee
nothing said about folding pre.
You said "the decision to fold or play is based on what kinds of hands do these guys raise with".

Edit: OK, I guess you meant the flop decision? But the previous line was about preflop so that's what it seemed to be referring to.
Flopped nut low Quote
10-18-2017 , 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee
the decision to fold or play is based on what kinds of hands do these guys raise with.
Could you elaborate this a bit more, specifically how you read these guys' hands based on such flop action?
Flopped nut low Quote
10-18-2017 , 12:39 PM
I'm far from a good O8 player, but I'd like a little more coordination to raise pre. It's going to be hard to scoop, and you'd like to encourage worse low hands to come along.

On the flop, it looks like you're going to have to endure a lot of action with almost no shot at the high, and a decent chance of getting quartered. I think you should just let it go.
Flopped nut low Quote
10-18-2017 , 02:02 PM
Limping preflop with this hand is fine.

On the flop, I suppose it's a fold, but a very close one. I probably call if I have the A-high BDFD rather than K-high.
Flopped nut low Quote
10-18-2017 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee
against these players i dont like a pre flop raise with a 9 in my hand.
the decision to fold or play is based on what kinds of hands do these guys raise with.
Hey Ray Zee, glad for the input (and your book, already paying for itself).

I was actually also concerned about my K hi suit getting me in trouble postflop, but obviously the 9 sucks too (so I really just have AK for high and A2 for low).

My inclination is that these players are way more likely to be jamming a straight here for value / to fold out live hands like a JTxy that these guys love playing for some reason, or make a hand like KT77 pay. I'd be happy to call if I had any sort of backup (like A24 or A2T8), but my hand is hopeless for high and even if I'm the only low, I'm still only holding up 75% of the time.

At game speed, I took 3 to the face because it is kind of gross to fold the nut low to these loose players, but I'm not even doing too hot on my simulation (pardon me if I'm missing hands, did this from my phone). So in the future, I may err towards just folding this.
Flopped nut low Quote
10-18-2017 , 08:50 PM
okay my first sentence was about not raising pre. just my choice here. some likely would disagree.

2nd sentence is that you decide whether to fold the nut low based on what you know about these players.

say one or two would not be so aggressive after the flop with two easy to have nut hands out there. so then you can figure on getting a quarter of it.
however if they are aggressive gamblers i would certainly play on and probably join in on the jamming. its way too easy for all of them to be going high here or have a weaker low. and other than getting your low killed you are getting money plus the added money from the opening. sometimes even getting counterfeited you find your low is still good.
to fold the nut low you need really to be three way and have tight players in betting. or some kind of info that leads to your fold. rather than fear.
much easier to fold a nut high as many times there are more cards to beat you that can come.
Flopped nut low Quote
10-21-2017 , 04:17 PM
Results:

Spoiler:
i called three cold as did the button, turn went 5 way

Turn J, three bettor bets and we all call

River 8, checks to me and I bet, btn and bb call, flop 3 bettor lolfolds. I'm good for the low, btn has the flopped nut high and bb likely called with a two way hand
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10-21-2017 , 04:46 PM
Nh
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10-21-2017 , 10:20 PM
what are the stack sizes??
How deep are you?
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10-21-2017 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galfondstyle
what are the stack sizes??
How deep are you?
This is a limit poker hand; assuming no one is extremely short-stacked, these don't matter.
Flopped nut low Quote
10-22-2017 , 11:00 PM
Easy re raise cap.

Catch a spade on the turn, it is glory time.

Get bricked, buh bye. neither happens, check call the rest of the way.

Look, you might get capped either way.

You are never folding a limit game with nut low.

You have 3 spades to the nuts. Go crazy on flop. If I catch a king of the turn with your hand I bet or raise.

Get bricked, so it goes. You never fold the nut low in a limit game. You have the nuts. You jam any nut low with back door draws. If you have no backdoor draws for high, check call mode, given the action.
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10-22-2017 , 11:09 PM
You don't come to the casino to check call the nuts. Jam all your nut lows on the flop as hard and fast as possible. Especially with back door scoop possibilities. I usually jam nut low draws with high potential. 4 to nut low with gut shot or single pair I am reraising 100% of the time.

It is limit. You can 't get stacked. Get aggressive with the nuts and nut draws. you get bricked, you get bricked. Punish the dopses with second nut low and the morons with mid bottom straights and bottom sets.

Michael Cappeltti wrote a fantastic book about low limit Omaha.

all A-2, a-3's playable.

2-3, best have high potential.

punish the weak. Assuming the action you were not playing 40-80.
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