Home game, 1/2, 100 buyin, half NHLE/PLO8...loose, social non-raked game on Pokerrrr...used to play weekly in person pre covid.

I'm in SB with A35Q, double suited. Game is very loose and passive preflop...think it gets limped around 7 players (9 total). Effective stacks 150

Flop: A 6 8, two hearts...I have Q3 hearts.

I like this flop heads up, but not multiway.

I donk for 9.

Next player, who is clueless and spazzy, raises to 20. Nitty player calls, and fairly solid player then calls.

At this point, I'm not sure what to do...I could be drawing dead both ways, and really don't want to commit more money...

Do I fold, call or, dare I say, repot?

Thanks.

Both decisions so far seem bad to me (I'd raise pre, and I wouldn't ever even consider betting flop), but as played I think I'd just fold.

ya i'd want to pot pre

but as played betting flop with this many players with non-nuts both ways seems like you're asking for trouble

Truth

Easy fold, check flop 100%.

Raising OOP in our Omaha game is suicide. You bloat the pot, and most of the time will need to check/fold the flop. Maybe if I could get heads up I would pot it, but people aren't here to fold. Probably gets 5-6 handed even with a $20 raise.

As for flop bet, the problem with checking is a couple of the players LOVE to sandbag and check raise. In particular the player to my left. But he'll raise if I bet and he has a good hand. So if it gets checked to last player, and he bets, I'll have to call as he bets very thin when action passes to him. Then I'll get check raised/squeezed and probably have to fold. And it will cost me more.

Putting more money in the pot with an advantage is not suicide. You are thinking about the game wrong.

+1

It’s not suicide. But I dont see a reason to bloat pots out of position in a short stacked game against players that will play horrible and stack off light post flop.

After you check the flop, you are mostly looking to fold. I get the feeling you are overvaluing your hand by quite a lot.

As for the pre-flop, you often should be raising when it's likely you have the best hand. That is the way to punish people limping weak hands, you force them to put more money in when you are the favorite. It doesn't matter if you need to check-fold many flops. In a 5-way pot you are not supposed to win a lot more than 20% of the time.

exactly

i've gotten a lot better over the past year in all games i play, and one of the reasons why is because i've gotten over the negative feeling of check-folding postflop after being PFR.

I would agree with you in a Casino or online...however, our home game has some of the worst Omaha players I've ever played with.

The raiser had 3410K, tightish caller had three pair, and last to call had bottom set with a 3. No one had hearts or a straight draw.

Turn was a deuce of hearts, raiser shoved all in...other two called.

River was 4...set with 3 took 3/4. Of course I would have scooped with wheel/queen high flush...actually wheel alone was good!

I don't have an issue folding the flop after potting preflop...however, oftentimes some of the truly spewy ones will repot with garbage and we'll go 4-5 handed into a 500+ pot. Then it's truly lotto with shortish stacks.

But if this game is so special, maybe it doesn't make sense to ask for people's opinion here if you are the only one who understands the dynamics of this game?

I think the dynamics you describe make leading the flop even worse and raising pre even better (you are pushing a ton of equity), but I have the feeling you are not going to listen.

i mean if equity isn't gonna convince you to raise preflop with a great hand then i'm not really sure what will.

i think it's evident by your post with the results that you're way more interested in confirming you made a bad fold postflop (which you didn't) than confirming you made a bad non-raise pre (confirmed by at LEAST two really good players, and none of those even being me).

Not really...I felt OK folding the flop...I figured my low wasn't good, and wasn't sure my flush draw was either. Turns out I was half right.

I get the reraise preflop...though personally without the deuce I'm not sure why everyone thinks it's such a clear raise especially OOP. Are people suggesting I pot it with every top 20% hand because I have a slight EV edge? I get it if I'm all in, but with stacks behind aren't I just making it much more difficult to play when I hit a hand like this?

Pre is not a clear raise - you are pushing an equity edge and hand has good playability on many textures, but you are still oop and will have many challenging decisions when you flop/turn medium strength hands.

Generally the stronger a player you are, the more comfortable you will be raising preflop, but its still fine to decide whether to raise or fold on a case by case basis.

Being OOP is less bad with the SPR of 1-2 that you'll get than the 9 or whatever that you had.

Good posts here. For me pre is a very clear raise though in a game like this.

OK then...next game this week I'll be potting my good hands preflop...will report on how it turns out, though of course it will be too small a sample size.

One reason maybe I haven't is because I've been running bad...checked all my hands...of over 200 hands last two sessions, I only won low once which is incredible...I loosen up in this game and will play any ace-wheel card, and any three card wheel combo without an ace, plus 23 and the occasional 24.

It sounds like your pre-flop game is as horrible as your opponent's right now. Any ace-wheel? AJ95r is one and I wouldn't put a penny in with that. Many 23/24-combinations are not worth investing either. And apparently you are doing the same things with those hands as with premiums like AQ53ds, because you are scared to raise pre (especially OOP).

I think you should start folding the junky stuff more and raising especially AH2x and AH3xds more.

as mentioned, there are a lot of good posts in the thread, and i think they will help you.

i would focus a bit on what roll said. consider spots where potting it pre shorts your SPR to virtual all ins postflop. when that occurs then being OOP (which of course we all understand to be pretty negative in a PL/NL format) just doesn't have the same negative effect.

yes, you might be running bad, but the way you counteract running bad is by mashing bets into the pot where you're the equity favorite. it's not necessarily about loosening up, and if the takeaway that potting A35Qds pre is loosening up, that's not the right track (if i'm not misunderstanding you). the takeaway should be to force people to put money into the pot when you have a good hand and they're on weaker ranges - such that you're a money favorite pre, and also such that once they get to a spot like this postflop they are often compelled to continue unfavorably (while you are able to make easier decisions than them).

the posts in here aren't advocating for you to loosen up and play marginal hands for big raises. they're to play your good hands strong.

As I said earlier, 90% of the pots are unraised preflop and played 5-9 handed. In a casino, I wouldn't touch the vast majority of these hands unless I was in the blinds. With players willing to call large bets with bottom two, third nut flush and bottom end of straight, it seems like you would want to see as many flops as possible, no?

Well, depends to the extent it (massive mistakes by villains) happens. Still, the main point remains, raise with your premium hands. Of course it's nice if you can play a nonsensical hand like 24TT for profit.

You have been taught things worth of at least a few thousand dollars in this thread, assuming the game in question indeed is 1/2 dollars, not 1/2 cents.

24TT is considered a premium hand in our game!

as amok said, raise with your premium hands.

the way you make the most money in games with bad players is to maximize value and kill them with your top hands.