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Omaha/8 Discussions of Omaha High-Low Split (Eight or Better) Poker.

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Old 03-07-2019, 08:41 PM   #1
DalTXColtsFan
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FLO8 example from a book

J2T4 in the HJ after 4 limpers. This is a clear and easy fold, but in the book the player called to set up a postflop decision. CO and BTN fold, SB completes, BB raises, everybody (including hero) calls.

Flop comes 844. 7 players, 7BB in the pot.

SB checks, BB bets, everybody calls. 9.5BB in the pot.

What's the best play here? It seemed like a difficult spot while I was reading the book but now I think a raise is a no-brainer. As a matter of fact, a reraise by the BB would be a GOOD thing because he'd help us knock out a lot of hands with outs to beat our trips. The reality is we're playing for half of this pot, but I don't mind making my half of the pot as big as possible.

I'm aware that someone could make a bigger flush than us, but I don't think that happens often enough to worry about and we have outs to a boat.

I'm also aware that someone could have a bigger 4, but come on, how mubsy can we be?

Is a raise as obvious as it looks?

EDIT: And how confident are we that the BB has some form of A2, A3 or AA? I think he's betting a nut low or second-nut low draw.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:44 AM   #2
agamblerthen
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

The BB could have A234, A24x, A34x, or AA45. So I think when you raise and he reraises, he's actually ahead of you. And when you raise and he just calls, everyone who called one bet on the flop will call your raise. So at best, you might get the SB to fold with a raise.

Nut low draws and second-nut low draws are never folding on this flop. The nut flush draw is never folding. And if someone else has a 4 in their hand, they're never folding on this flop. Right now you lose to 88, 48, 4Q, 4K, and 4A. With six opponents, I'd be worried that someone could have one of those combos. And you're not going to like a lot of turn cards: any Ace (in case the BB has something like AA2x or AA3x), any 8 (which could give someone bigger trips than yours), any 7, 6, or 5 (which could give someone a straight as well as completing the low), or any spade.

I would say your hand is too good to fold but not strong enough to raise just yet. I would wait to see what comes on the turn and reevaluate the action then.

By the way, this hand ranks 21.0 according to ProPokerTools. I would usually play it from late position after several limps.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:47 AM   #3
AllInNTheDark
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

Seems like a marginal spot PF, but would lean to calling here.

OTF, it's ~53% that someone else has a 4, probably a bit higher than that in actuality. Still, I think I would raise OTF here.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:51 AM   #4
RichGangi
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

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Originally Posted by agamblerthen View Post
I would say your hand is too good to fold but not strong enough to raise just yet. I would wait to see what comes on the turn and reevaluate the action then.
This. You're drawing to half the pot and your hand is vulnerable.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:48 PM   #5
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

Raise is thin. There are several reasons that doing it can ok, especially because you are the btn, but it really shouldnt be ev on hand strength alone. This hand turns pretty ugly fast if you dont fill up, and often even when you do.

Last edited by monikrazy; 03-08-2019 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 03-09-2019, 06:17 PM   #6
RolldUpTrips
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

Flop seems close to me. Hand is clearly good enough to limp multiway like this.
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:04 PM   #7
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

I really like 23TJds when it appears based on preflop action (basically the lack of action) that many aces are live.

Iím not a huge fan of 24TJ ds when it appears as if many aces are dead. If this is a zoo game then maybe we have little info. Thus I think 24TJds is on border here on HJ. But seems like a must call from BU.

I would not describe the legit concern of having the second best hand on this flop as fearing monsters under the bed though.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:06 PM   #8
e1cnr
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

What book is this example from?
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:53 PM   #9
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

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Originally Posted by e1cnr View Post
What book is this example from?
Jeff Hwang's Pot-Limit Omaha the Big Play Strategy.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:50 PM   #10
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

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Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
Jeff Hwang's Pot-Limit Omaha the Big Play Strategy.
I thought this chapter was very good
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:34 PM   #11
NickMPK
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

Preflop, this is the sort of hand that I think I should probably fold but almost always end up limping anyway.

On the flop, I think you should raise. I do think there's a good chance you need to fill up in order to win, but in situations where you do spike a J or a T, you actually have a good chance to win the whole pot. And with 7 players in the pot, raising is almost a +EV value bet even when do need to fill up to win.

Both decisions are marginal though, and I wouldn't fault you either way on either street.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:21 PM   #12
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

I just fold without thinking too much... not looking for these massive exploitative spots, very unproven what your range should be anyway. you'll have to play very well post-flop to make this profitable (if it is profitable), and you'll find yourself in spots where you fear getting scooped. The only positive is that there already is a decent pot... at the same time though the aces are more and more dead and so your 2-4 combo matters less because aces are going to flop a lot less. some hands just don't get better with more players I think.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:25 AM   #13
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Re: FLO8 example from a book

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Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
What's the best play here? It seemed like a difficult spot while I was reading the book but now I think a raise is a no-brainer. As a matter of fact, a reraise by the BB would be a GOOD thing because he'd help us knock out a lot of hands with outs to beat our trips. The reality is we're playing for half of this pot, but I don't mind making my half of the pot as big as possible.
Knocking out players does the opposite of making your half of the pot as big as possible.
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