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Omaha/8 Discussions of Omaha High-Low Split (Eight or Better) Poker.

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Old 12-06-2017, 10:50 AM   #1
Caterina
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[Cash, Micro, PLO8] Did i play this hand badly?

Situation: Unremarkable table dynamics. We got one very loose/passive player and a bunch of nitty guys.

MP is one of the regs, I respect the most. In the universe of micro plo8, he can be called a tough reg. Capable of (semi)bluffing, double and triple barreling or checking the nuts. He will also show up with all sorts of hands depending on action/position, but not go overboard. The kind of person, I really don't want behind me.
BB plays very few hands, yet still picks the wrong type of hands, when he plays. He folds too often and overvalues the naked NLD aswell as the naked NFD.

    Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha H/L Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37881761

    SB: $2.28 (114 bb)
    BB: $0.80 (40 bb)
    Hero (UTG): $4.55 (227.5 bb)
    MP: $3.27 (163.5 bb)
    CO: $3.33 (166.5 bb)
    BTN: $4.64 (232 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with A K T 3
    Hero raises to $0.05, MP calls $0.05, 2 folds, SB calls $0.04, BB calls $0.03

    By now this is a standardraise for me in this kind of game.
    MP tank-calls, which alerts me. He might have considered 3betting or playing a kind of "implied-odds" hand that rarely hits, but when it does, it hits big.

    Flop: ($0.20) J 5 T (4 players)
    SB checks, BB bets $0.19, Hero calls $0.19, MP raises to $0.57, SB folds, BB calls $0.38, Hero calls $0.38
    First glance: I have a little bit of everything. I think, this is a good flop headsup, but a bad one multiway (I might be chasing in two directions).

    I think, BB's leading range is weighted towards sets and the NFD.
    I'm not folding MPTK here. If he has a set, he will bet again on the turn, if he has the NFD and the turn is a blank, he will check.

    Should I still fold, because of MP behind me?

    Once MP raises, things get really ugly. I think, he raises here with sets, wraps and some combodraws. Should I instantly muck? I remember not really thinking this through, when I played the hand.
    On the one hand, I was thinking MPTK + T-high FD + GS +BDLD, is too strong to lay down against my estimated raising range, but then there is still the BB in the hand, which means, my clubs are probably not good and at least blocked most of the time (thinking about the sidepot, MP and me are going to play).

    What does one do here?
    Whenever I'm confused like this, I usually call, because incorrectly folding can cost me the pot, while incorrectly calling will cost me a bet.

    Turn: ($1.91) 8 (3 players)
    BB bets $0.18 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.18, MP raises to $2.57, Hero folds

    Straightdraw got there and I picked up a good LD. I instacall the remaining 0.18, because the pot is too big, to fold here.
    MP raises: I think, he wouldn't raise the turn with anything less than a straight, even thought, he might have done so on the flop. That leaves me with the question: Is my FD/LD good for the sidepot or not? Since I can't be certain and it is in all likelyhood at least blocked, I fold.

    River: ($2.45) 2 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


    After the hand, I think ... the hell, why did you fold. But that seems to be result orientated. What do you guys think about this hand?
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    Old 12-06-2017, 11:23 AM   #2
    amok
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    Re: [Cash, Micro, PLO8] Did i play this hand badly?

    I'd seriously consider folding both times on the flop. Sounds nitty, I know, but there are 4 players in the pot and it's impossible to realize the equity you have 3-way with these "a little bit of everything"-hands.

    Maybe you should think about raising the turn? He should be folding away a lot of equity and getting it in is not disastrous. I think it's better than call-getin, but call-fold is not bad I think.

    I think whenever you are confused, folding is the best default option.
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    Old 12-07-2017, 03:46 AM   #3
    monikrazy
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    Re: [Cash, Micro, PLO8] Did i play this hand badly?

    Agree with fold flop immediately, you are drawing to 3 clean outs, even if we want to upgrade the number with ts and 2p sometimes being good, action hasn't closed, this is just a good spot for a disciplined layout

    Implied odds aren't great, even though the lo backup is decent its not enough to get entangled (and a2 and a3 can always be out there reducing the value of said backup)

    This is a good example of a hand where you would never fold limit but should normally fold pot-limit because of how much more expensive it gets every street

    I think call-fold the turn is fine, mp will frequently have a hand strong enough to call it off vs q9 and hero should not have that many q9xx combinations for an utg open

    Last edited by monikrazy; 12-07-2017 at 03:53 AM.
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    Old 12-07-2017, 07:39 AM   #4
    Caterina
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    Re: [Cash, Micro, PLO8] Did i play this hand badly?

    Thank you both.
    I guess, I was really looking too much at the result and got carried away on the flop a bit.

    However, calling the initial BB bet, I still think, is better than instantly folding. I do this from my experience (even multiway), because
    * the superloose player wasn't in the hand, which means a lot of the time, all the players behind me are just going to fold (They will fold all their straight and lowdraws and hands as strong as toptwo regularly)
    * I have position on BB and his hand will almost be face up on the turn.

    Thinking more about this. I know my reasons, but maybe I need to let go of it in the early positions regardless.

    I really should have folded to MP's raise. He saw BB lead (and I know, he's aware of BBs range), me call and he made the raise anyways.

    Apart from the flopcall being a mistake, I rethought my "weird situations"-rule.
    So, now I'll fold flop/turn, when confused, but not the river.

    About a possible turnraise:
    I tried to think, about hands that MP would fold to a raise. I think, he's more likely to raise the flop with wraps/combodraws than with sets, because of his chosing sizing. If he had a set, he normally flats or raises pot, but then, he might have worked on this kind of tell. (We hadn't played in a while).
    Whatever the case, I don't think, I can fold out that much equity with a raise, but will be be getting in clearly behind (though not crushed) frequently.
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    Old 12-07-2017, 08:36 AM   #5
    billygstar
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    Re: [Cash, Micro, PLO8] Did i play this hand badly?

    Yes
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