3 handed:
Not many reads but SB is a fish, plays too many hands and rarely bluffs. BTN is probably not expert and probable losing player.

Preflop : BTN opens, SB calls, I call BB w JsTc9d8d

Flop : K86r one spade. SB checks, I bet, both call.

Turn: 9s (two spades). SB checks, I bet, both call.

River: offsuit K. SB checks, I ....

I am now thinking of turning my hand into a bluff as I lose to 9s w better kickers and TT-QQ.

I usually bet in a spot like this out of desperation and usually regret it.

I also would check fold the flop- Is that a mistake?

Why in the **** did you lead the flop?

Turning your hand into a bluff is fine as played, flop lead with the lo draw out there is clear spew

It's not even really turning his hand into a bluff with this line/action.
Nobody is going to fold a King here. And people have few 9s. Just check the river. Easy.

From your opponents' perspective, your line doesn't make sense.

You like the flop when there's a low draw and not much else.
You like the turn when the low doesn't get there but a couple of straights do.
And you also like the river when the board pairs.

What hand could you possibly have? A flopped set that chose to ignore the possible straights on the turn? An open-ended or wraparound straight draw that got there on the turn and is now choosing to ignore the possible full houses on the river? A low draw that added a flush draw on the turn and is now being turned into a bluff?

I hate to tell you, but I'm looking you up with any pair of 9's or better, maybe even a pair of 8's. And if I'm the preflop raiser, I could easily have pocket Aces or an AK in my hand—in which case I'm definitely looking you up.

Check-call the flop; lead the turn; and now if you want to bet the river, at least you can represent a straight. Though I might choose to check the river and hope it checks around.

Overall I was mostly curious about my river decision as I find it interesting that even though my hand is good a decent % of time here, I can still turn it into somewhat of an insurance bluff. I agree my flop lead is very spewy - it was late in an online session and game was playing fast/crazy. Check-folding this flop feels slightly nitty too.

As played, I ended up checking this river, which I still don't believe is necessarily the best decision. I think I can discount AA from both players hands as well as most Kings up and Ks with A2-A4 and 23 connectors. On the flop I feel like I am repping mostly K8/K6 type hands with some straight draw or average strength low draw.

On the turn not much really changes except I can now rep T7/75 as I can have a decent amount of wraps/wraps with pairs on this flop as well.

By the river I am not expecting trip Ks to fold to me here, but I am also expecting any 8-9 or TT as well as some JJ-QQ to fold and think that given the pot size, I could now turn my hand into a bluff at this point. I'm basically betting $20 to win $150 and I think that at 7.5-1, the range of hands containing Q9, A9, and TT-QQ are wide enough where I can make a profitable bluff.

Even though I'm good here a decent % of the time anyway, still feels that a bet on river to insure it can be ok.

Betting the river looks borderline ******ed. I don't understand anything about limit o8 though.

Not really trying to fold out K+ but I do think folding tt-qq is feasible if they were sticking around with other draws, for example a hand like a2tt could be folded by both good and bad players to the triple barrel

And folding out better 9s is huge

I don't have a great feel for villains range based on the op but I still think that firing the third barrel would be at worst a small mistake and could easily be +ev given the size of the pot

Edit: hadn't read your most recent post ned but there are parts i like, I disagree a little about what your range should look like, this is actually a cool flop to lead with a wide range, just not the hand you actually had

i would check the river pray ur good especially with opponents that dont bluff u have showdown value get free showdown.. TT or a A9 is calling.

If his opponents are as bad as he seems to think they are, it doesn't matter what his line looks like, they're not thinking on that many levels.

The entire hand looks like two opponents chasing low draws with maybe a pair somewhere, that they would rather just call and hope they hit.

When all the low draws miss, I'm definitely firing again, especially if I bet the other two streets. If the btn wakes up with Kxxx, so be it, but I would have expected him to raise at some point with AKxx holding any sort of low draw, so I find that scenario highly unlikely.

For this spot, I'm betting not because I'm turning my hand into a bluff, but because I think I have the best hand.

forget about whether you should have bet flop, i think there's two factors here. one, you actually have showdown value here. i'd rather be betting QJT wraps or other hands with no showdown value here if you wanted to bluff. second, whether to bluff in the first place is really opponent dependent.

What worse hand will call or better hand will fold?

I don't expect a better hand to be present given the action, which would merit for a check and showdown.

However, I constantly find myself surprised by what people decide to call with on the river in limit, which is why I would still bet.

For those advocating a river check, how are you responding if button bets and SB folds?

Isn't there only one sensible option?

wp Amok

No idea what you are referring to, but I admit that maybe there is more than one sensible thing to do in NickMPK's scenario.

1) call me a nit but i fold pre. i know it's 3 handed but middle cards are really really bad, even if they are all connected.

if i'm looking to get in with sub par hands i'm looking for more QT34 or KQ25, something like that. two wheel cards at least.

2) i get why you might bet the flop but i don't think it's going to be profitable, purely on the basis that the low draw is there.

when you are in a 3 way pot, it often makes sense to bet as the 2nd man when you have no hand. the reason is that the first man checked, and now you only have to make the 3rd fold, and the pot is often yours right there.

but that should be done on flops with little or no draw

If it were a full game and the action folded to the Button who raised, I would fold this hand in the big blind easily.

In a three-handed game, it would depend on how often the Button is raising. If he's raising nearly every hand, then I think this hand is worth a call.

But, it's still a borderline hand. I'm calling so that Button doesn't think he can run over me.



In the OP's hand, I'm fine with the river bet. I think it'll get called by a fair number of worse pairs.

It looks like a situation where it's better to bet even if you think you have the worst hand. You don't want to check and call an opponent's range that only includes better hands. So, it's better to bet even if you're good less than 50% of the time.

There's no way I'm considering folding this preflop.

I'm wondering if it is possible the best play is to check the river with the intention of folding to a bet if SB calls (or raises), but raising if SB folds.

Yeah that's what I meant with "maybe there is more than one sensible thing to do in NickMPK's scenario". Not sure though why exactly would this hand be better as a raise than as a call? Obv assuming that he's never folding trips+. What is he folding that we don't beat by calling? A9,TT-QQ? He'd first need to bet those.

Our blockers seem rather irrelevant in that case anyway, so I'd try to find bluff raises from other hands, like QJTx? (edit: umm no, not that hand, what was I thinking)

btw I don't understand a thing Dynasty is saying. He must be a very good player.

On ignition, I think it is a good % of the time. So many times see silly river bets (low missed! river check! I'm just going to bet because it's limit and I can do it cheap regardless of what else has happened in the hand). So I would definitely consider raising if sb folds.

Don't imagine it is much different on ACR but maybe it is.

Check-raising river is definitely an underutilized play in limit in these types of situations but I don't love doing it here. BTN is most likely not value betting better 9s or overpairs, and as we discussed before, he's not very likely to have a K. I don't think he would be bluffing this river often either and generally just expect him to check back over 85-90% of the time.

FWIW you should not be folding JT98 here in any situation. I would call much, much worse hands if HU, and it rarely has less than 25-30% equity 3 way (getting 5-1 it would be a very bad fold).

This thread is so weird. That flop lead is abhorrent. How can anyone gloss over that spew?

Turning the river into a bluff is def bad. You are trying to bluff out a small range of hands that probably isn't folding. The river bet might be okay, but not as a bluff. I like c/c.