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Old 07-27-2010, 04:26 PM   #1
PierreFermat
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Diamond Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

Played a bunch of this game at the Rio this summer during WSOP and decided to start a thread about this.
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:28 PM   #2
PierreFermat
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

At one point there were as many 3 tables going of this game at WSOP 2010?
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Old 07-27-2010, 05:49 PM   #3
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

The game at WSOP 2010 was technically a 5-10 game but often there was a 20 or 25 Mississippi Button Straddle that made the game play much bigger.
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Old 07-27-2010, 05:51 PM   #4
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

I would see PLO players who play much higher than 5-10 sit down in this game while they waited for their name to be called for their game give this game a go and it created a whole new set of dynamics.

I also noticed a lot of people who wanted to try this game out when they saw all the action in a few large multi-handed multi-way pots go to showdown.
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Old 07-27-2010, 07:43 PM   #5
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

It's not really a discussion if you're the only one talking =p
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:46 PM   #6
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

I think it brought new ppl 2 the game, anything that does that is great imo
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:24 PM   #7
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

what exactly would u like to discuss about it?
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:44 PM   #8
PierreFermat
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

I would like to discuss where this game may be played regularly and for what stakes. Any strategy discussion would be great. If you played in the game(s) at WSOP 2010 what did you notice about the players, the game, etc... Anything else about the game would be great too.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:58 AM   #9
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

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Originally Posted by PierreFermat View Post
I would like to discuss where this game may be played regularly and for what stakes. Any strategy discussion would be great. If you played in the game(s) at WSOP 2010 what did you notice about the players, the game, etc... Anything else about the game would be great too.

My observation is that its an action killer. Too many peeps worried about getting quartered, big hands were played way more cautiously. I wasn't a big fan of this.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:03 AM   #10
PierreFermat
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

I saw a lot of loose pre-flop calls to big raises then cautious play post flop but there were definitely certain players who played very aggressively if it was heads up or only 3 way to the flop and fired non-stop.

Almost no one folded once they limped in.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:03 AM   #11
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

We have played "Big O" here in Texas for years.

8 players 5 cards
7 players 6 cards
Omaha 8 with 5/10 blind and can bring it in for $50. Pot Limit.

A great action game if you can stomach the wide swings but is action plus.
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:31 AM   #12
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

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Originally Posted by pappyjack View Post
We have played "Big O" here in Texas for years.

8 players 5 cards
7 players 6 cards
Omaha 8 with 5/10 blind and can bring it in for $50. Pot Limit.

A great action game if you can stomach the wide swings but is action plus.
I see this is your first post. Welcome to the forum.

Big O has been in Southern California for years too. I played it several times at Morongo, an Indian casino near Palm Springs, starting several years ago.

Been a while, months, since I've been to Crystal Park casino in Los Angeles, but the last couple of times I was there they were playing Big O.

And I understand there's a casino in Ventura where Big O is played.

Five cards gives everyone ten two-card combinations instead of six. People are still going to be playing the favorite combinations, AA***, A2*** etc. but there's a greater chance of running into odd ball combinations.

The way things are, four card Omaha-8 played with regulars can be too oriented towards them getting the nuts and applying the pressure.

Five card Omaha-8 (Big O) is potentially worse.

New variations are fun to try and any game can be fun if you're better than your opponents, but I'm sticking with four card Omaha-8.

However, I do like Juarez. (Juarez is double flop, double turn, single river Omaha-8 played with five cards dealt to each player). Lots of action and screaming in that game.

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:46 PM   #13
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

I also played 5-10 Big O for the first time at the WSOP and thought the game was fun but I was not properly rolled for the game. I sat with about $650 where the other 5 players had over $1k and a few sat with close to $2k. It was definitely a high action game with 2 of the 6 players placing a $25 straddle on their button every time. Unfortunately I went broke in less than an hour, losing $400 on a hand where I flopped a set of Ks on a board of K-Q-4 with no re-draws and got called by a guy with A-2-2-5-J. We ran it twice and he hit a straight both times - oh well.

I am in NJ but have not seen Big O played anywhere in Atlantic City or anywher else I have played. Would definitely give it another try.
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:15 PM   #14
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

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Originally Posted by pappyjack View Post
We have played "Big O" here in Texas for years.

8 players 5 cards
7 players 6 cards
Omaha 8 with 5/10 blind and can bring it in for $50. Pot Limit.

A great action game if you can stomach the wide swings but is action plus.
Where at in Tx?
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:50 AM   #15
PierreFermat
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

Buzz,

What are the stakes that they run in Southern California?
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:50 PM   #16
Buzz
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

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Originally Posted by PierreFermat View Post
Buzz,

What are the stakes that they run in Southern California?
They vary.

I'm not sure what the stakes are for any Big-O games currently operating. The Big-O games in which I have played were $3/$6/kill, $4/$8/kill, and $6/$12/half-kill.

I haven't seen any higher stakes Big-O than that. But because of my cardiovascular condition, I intentionally steer clear of games with higher stakes in order to avoid stress.

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Old 07-30-2010, 04:58 PM   #17
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

Im assuming you still play EXACTLY two from your hand at showdown correct? If so I like the idea, and obv is would be better than playing PLO8 at a full ring, Big "O" should be less swingy played shorthanded or am I completely wrong
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Old 07-30-2010, 05:10 PM   #18
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

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Im assuming you still play EXACTLY two from your hand at showdown correct?
Correct.

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Old 07-30-2010, 06:16 PM   #19
PierreFermat
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

Interesting that they have Limit 5 card O8. I thought you were talking about Pot Limit 5 card O8 in Southern Cali. I asked if they would get an interest list of Limit 5 card O8 going at the Rio during WSOP 2010 but nothing materialized. If I were to try and get that going next year at WSOP 2011, what limit should I go for? 10-20 and 20-40? lower? higher?

I thought 5-10 5 Card PLO8 with an optional 20/25 button straddle was a pretty big game and it priced out a lot of players. I guess they did not want to deal a 1-2 or 2-5 game.
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:16 PM   #20
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

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Originally Posted by PierreFermat View Post
I thought you were talking about Pot Limit 5 card O8 in Southern Cali.
To the best of my knowledge there is no sustained game of pot limit Omaha-8 of any kind in Southern California. No-limit four-card Omaha-8 ($40 to $100 buy in, $2 and $3 blinds) was alive and well at one casino the last time I checked. I'll get over there some time this weekend, tomorrow or Sunday, for a session or two of that. If I feel inclined, I'll stop by the casino where I last played five card Omaha-8 to see if that game is still running. I can almost guarantee it ain't gonna be pot-limit. Seems that the good players beat up the poor players too quickly for pot-limit Omaha-8 to be sustainable. (And the average dealer will have trouble computing the size of the pot, slowing the game to a crawl).

Quote:
I asked if they would get an interest list of Limit 5 card O8 going at the Rio during WSOP 2010 but nothing materialized. If I were to try and get that going next year at WSOP 2011, what limit should I go for? 10-20 and 20-40? lower? higher?
I have no idea.

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Old 07-30-2010, 10:28 PM   #21
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

I played 7 long sessions of Big "O" over my Vegas stay this summer. I generally hate playing live cash because I get incredibly bored. This game provided enough action to keep me interested and there was enough money moving in most instances to make it worth the time investment. I think this game was perfect for the Series. It had enough of a buzz to get some outside interest and some people taking shots at the game that really had no chance to compete. When there was significant straddling and raising preflop the game was great as pots got large enough to build in some moves.

The gameplay ends up being quite different than standard 4 card plo8 and I saw a number of great plo8 players struggle with some key adjustments. You are going to see more people to most flops making flop play far more cautious. Some standard winning bet lines would not work the same. An example would be something like holding A34K on a 25Q board and potting the flop, turn is a Q and you pot again and generally take things down unconsted in 4 card. In the 5 card game you have people waiting to bang back with their sets on the turn because they know every draw is out there and would prefer to see a safe card first. Another huge item that the 5th card adds is increased ability to have counterfeit protection. This becomes a huge issue as the instances of having the same nut hand is greatly increased and the ability to deal with counterfeit cards that your opponent can't is huge.

In general I think this game is great for live poker because it can see more people to the flop. I don't think this game would be good on-line, it becomes even more nut peddly and would eventually become an absolute grinding bore of waiting to be on one side or another of setups and seeing who can manage quartering situations better. I definitely think there is more of an edge for top end players in 4 card than there is in 5 card, but to bring more interest to the game this was a fantastic option to have at the Series.
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Old 07-31-2010, 12:58 AM   #22
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by pappyjack View Post
We have played "Big O" here in Texas for years.

8 players 5 cards
7 players 6 cards
Omaha 8 with 5/10 blind and can bring it in for $50. Pot Limit.

A great action game if you can stomach the wide swings but is action plus.
We were playing this kind of game in New Mexico in the mid-80's, also pot limit. In some variations they just dealt all the cards out, leaving enough stub for flop, turn an river. For example with five players you'd get 9 cards in your hand. Usually we'd start out with 5 or 6 card (mixed in with other high low games), but towards the end of the evening they'd just deal them all.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:43 AM   #23
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

The hustler gets a half plo half Plo8 2/2 blind game running once in a while. I believe that Hawaiian Gardens has a 1/2 NLO8 game as well. Morongo has a 5 card limit 4/8 big O game with a kill.

I dont believe there are any casinos in LA with 5 card O8.
I frequent a dealer's choice home game where Big O is a common choice, but I haven't seen it anywhere else except at the WSOP.


As for thoughts on the actual game, I think Big O is easier to play and learn cause hand ranges are stronger. I also think its easier to extract money out of the live ones, and that they tend to like it more. So i think its a win win.
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Old 07-31-2010, 01:10 PM   #24
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by pappyjack View Post
We have played "Big O" here in Texas for years.

8 players 5 cards
7 players 6 cards
Omaha 8 with 5/10 blind and can bring it in for $50. Pot Limit.

A great action game if you can stomach the wide swings but is action plus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsal Fin View Post
Where at in Tx?
Called "Big Mitt" in Texas. Was probably the biggest action game during the 90s in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Victoria, CC, Austin etc. Seems to have died out with the HE revival.

There are strategic aspects to this game that trap the plo8 player.

I played a couple of sessions at the Rio and thought they were good games. I was down $40 for both sessions.

Here's a quiz: I'm in the CO with A2388; Three see a flop of 865; I am whipsawed all in. How much of the pot did I win?

Hint 1: One opponent had KKQ43, other didn't show.

Hint 2: Turn was an A, river was a 2.

/bbv, but a fairly common story.

If you want Big O threads, it might be best to post specific hands and ask for comments.
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Old 08-01-2010, 03:48 PM   #25
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re: Big "O" - 5 Card PLO8 - Discussion

I definitely saw a lot of people who play much higher sit down and blow through a lot of cash waiting for their games as well as low stakes players give this a try and not be able to handle the big betting that was going on at the Rio this summer. I still see a lot of mistakes made by the players that do not understand 4 card PLO8 making them in Big O which is what caused the winners to extract from the losers. There was also a lot of short stacking which caused awkward stack sizes with multiple side pots as people often got all in on the flop and turn and big stacks were still able to bet each other out.

I agree how this game would be terrible online but live people tend to play a lot of flops hoping to hit a monster and not realizing that they often won't and then when they hit a 2nd or 3rd best hand they can't let go.

A limit version would probably be fun as people may splash around and see a lot of flops knowing that they won't face a huge raise if they limp or raise. This might get people to loosen up.
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