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06-30-2020 , 09:09 AM

Asta0

grinder

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 403

5/5
8 handed

3 limpers, I check K

in SB, BB checks.

(25)
T

Everybody check

(25)
6

I bet 25, BB calls, fold, CO raises to 125, btn folds,
I raise to 425, BB folds, CO tank calls.

(900)
9

CO is a reg, playing every single day.

He has around 1000 left.

The problem with this hand is that I'm completely unbalanced and always have quads because I'm not turning a 2 into a bluff.

He always has 66 or TT.

How much would you bet?

I think I'm face up turn and checking is out of question.

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06-30-2020 , 09:25 AM

Asta0

grinder

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 403

Maybe calling turn is better

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06-30-2020 , 11:44 AM

a dewd

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 4,594

If you fold the turn, its possible to get a no more chips in the river, too.

I'd probably bet the same 425 on the river, taking time to do it with the Hope's of having it appear as a busted nut flush/nut low or something. Their slow call in the turn may have been that, too.

If they are solid player, might end up with no more chips anyway. Doesn't seem to be played wrong to me.

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06-30-2020 , 11:58 AM

amok

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,247

I think re-raising the turn is good for protection. We happen to hit a 4-outer river (vs TT), but let's not get results-oriented. You aren't making anything from 66 no matter what you do, so the question is how to make the most against TT. I think the options are betting something like half pot hoping to get called, bet smaller hoping to get raised (very unlikely) or checking hoping he bets bigger or calls the c/r. I think checking is pretty tempting really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by a dewd

If you fold the turn, its possible to get a no more chips in the river, too.

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06-30-2020 , 12:15 PM

a dewd

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 4,594

Quote:

Originally Posted by amok

Lol, oops. I meant if you just call the turn. Ugh.

I'd bet no higher than the 425 turn bet on the river. Probably makes sense to go a bit lower, as if you missed, and hope for a raise.

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06-30-2020 , 02:32 PM

BHDonkey

adept

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 756

Just because you're a regular, doesn't mean you're good.

I've never seen a player lay down nut full house heads up...unless trips on on the board.

I've played with plenty of "regulars" who refuse to lay down any full house because, well, it's a full house!

A player who will make the big laydown is folding 66 on the turn raise...depending on your image, they'll laydown 1010 too. I've never played with someone like that, though.

I bet smallish ($250ish) if I want to get called, or maximum hoping they'll get curious or won't be able to fold.

Last edited by BHDonkey; 06-30-2020 at 02:33 PM. Reason: clarify

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06-30-2020 , 03:00 PM

kisada

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,860

yeah i like raising turn for protection.

not really sure what i'd do on the river. check seems interesting though because you might be able to get villain to think you were c/r'ing with 62 then got scared of putting the rest of the chips in on the river.

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06-30-2020 , 03:46 PM

cfreaks

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,418

Quote:

Originally Posted by a dewd

I'd bet no higher than the 425 turn bet on the river. Probably makes sense to go a bit lower, as if you missed, and hope for a raise.

I like a smaller bet so that A34xx with clubs or 66 can call and TT will shove.

I doubt he has TT here as he would have probably just shoveled it in on the turn.

Just enjoy the fact that you made around $500 with the worst imaginable starting hand and dodged the low.

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06-30-2020 , 03:59 PM

a dewd

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 4,594

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfreaks

Yeah, I'm guessing the tank call was for splitting the pot with the nut lo or something.

If I had the quads, 99% chance the lo fills with the way I've been gobsmacked by the deck lately

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06-30-2020 , 07:25 PM

#10

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,046

Putting in that 2nd turn raise is standard.

200 - 300 on river should get some crying calls.

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07-01-2020 , 05:02 PM

#11

kisada

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,860

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfreaks

i think this is probably about right, and if i were playing really focused, i'd want to be along these lines

villain has TT far less often because he'd most likely shove for protection against low draws. the remainder of his range is 66, or maybe even overpair with clubs type stuff.

as such, you aren't in a spot where you're just trying to max out value from the top of your opponent's range (TT). you're trying to extract value from the lesser parts of his range which are a lot more likely to call a smaller bet size (66, flushes). so something between like quarter pot to half pot, depending on my river strategy at the time.

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07-03-2020 , 03:48 AM

#12

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asta0

Maybe calling turn is better

+1

Like if he’s repping this strong of a hand, are we really afraid of him checking back and not giving us the value?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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07-03-2020 , 05:12 AM

#13

amok

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,247

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asta0

Maybe calling turn is better

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdr0317

+1

Like if he’s repping this strong of a hand, are we really afraid of him checking back and not giving us the value?

Again, let me remind you that we hit the gin card on the river. I think most players play way too straight-forward and protect way too much, but here I think protection is very important since at the same time we are getting a lot of value from hands drawing to an 1-outer.

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07-03-2020 , 05:41 AM

#14

ngFTW

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 449

i don't have 5 card experience, nor do i have experience trying to play as optimally/balanced as OP appears to play or wishes to play.
however, if 3-betting presents such a balance/leading on high-card rivers issue, why not take the line of c/r on the turn?

(i suppose you still have the same question if you are 3-bet, whether to 4 bet and does that turn your hand face up, but getting 3bet i would think makes villains range clearer, or does it? and you get more value on the turn)

with 4 to act after you check, the turn is likely to be bet, isn't it?

Last edited by ngFTW; 07-03-2020 at 05:47 AM.

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07-03-2020 , 06:02 AM

#15

amok

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,247

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngFTW

I don't like checking turn very much, simply because the turn isn't likely to be bet because of the blockers we have (22). When we bet, TT will often raise and 66 will sometimes raise I suppose. Many hands drawing to a split are likely to call I think (but should be often checking when checked to). As already explained, I like 3-betting the turn when raised. I don't understand what balance/leading on high-card rivers issue is there even.

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07-03-2020 , 02:19 PM

#16

Asta0

grinder

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by amok

I don't understand what balance/leading on high-card rivers issue is there even.

What does this sentence mean?

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07-03-2020 , 02:43 PM

#17

Asta0

grinder

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by amok

Checking river is an interesting option, I didn't because I didn't want him to check back 66. But you're right I should target TT since 66 is more likely to fold river.

He had TT and tank called 400 on the river.
I think he should always bet TT on the flop.

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07-03-2020 , 03:46 PM

#18

kisada

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,860

Quote:

Originally Posted by amok

agree

you make the most money with the top of your range against the top of someone else's range. and betting accomplishes that.

and the only way to make money here against low draws, or some combo draw is to actually charge them by betting, instead of checking in the off-chance they try to stab for one street.

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07-04-2020 , 05:47 AM

#19

amok

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,247

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asta0

What does this sentence mean?

I didn't understand what ngFTW meant by

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngFTW

however, if 3-betting presents such a balance/leading on high-card rivers issue, why not take the line of c/r on the turn?

as I don't think there is any issue. We 3-bet the turn with quads, TT with no nld, some bluffs (in theory) and plan to bet most rivers.

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07-04-2020 , 05:48 AM

#20

amok

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,247

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asta0

I think he should always bet TT on the flop.

Definitely. Guess you got a bit unlucky there.

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07-04-2020 , 10:46 AM

#21

Asta0

grinder

Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by amok

I didn't understand what ngFTW meant by
as I don't think there is any issue. We 3-bet the turn with quads, TT with no nld, some bluffs (in theory) and plan to bet most rivers.

Ok, I get it.
Checking turn is clearly very bad with my hand

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