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Old 03-08-2020, 07:55 PM   #1
Cpstar1976
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Big O hand

3/6
8 handed

SB $270 fish
HER0 $623
MP $1468 rec



PRE-FLOP

MP opens to 18, BTN(HERO) calls with AQQ39, SB calls.

FLOP (K3Q) $60 3 players

MP checks, HERO?

Should HERO use this combo to XB flop with such poor playability(Set w/ PB, no BD low draw, no BDFD)


SPR 4 against fish and SPR 10 against MP range
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:52 PM   #2
Jeffage
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Re: 5c hi/lo

I’d be potting this flop.
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:38 PM   #3
Cpstar1976
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Re: 5c hi/lo

Yea I did. SB repot and showed up with KKK. SPR small with SB so not that big of a deal but if hes 100BB my hand doesnt look good. I literally have no backup.
Afterwards I immediately thought maybe it should go into my XB range
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Old 03-09-2020, 04:34 AM   #4
amok
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Re: 5c hi/lo

OP: "should I slowplay this, for reasons x?"

forum: "lol, pot"
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Old 03-09-2020, 06:01 AM   #5
monikrazy
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Re: 5c hi/lo

I think hero should bet to protect his hand but it does not have to be pot. Sb being a fish means we should lean towards getting value on flop, while we are more willing to balance vs strong opponents.

Hand is also strong enough to 3! Preflop.
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Old 03-09-2020, 11:04 AM   #6
amok
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Re: 5c hi/lo

Pre-flop is obv fold btw
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Old 03-09-2020, 02:44 PM   #7
kisada
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Re: 5c hi/lo

yeah kind of a trap hand cause it has some nice looking components.
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Old 03-09-2020, 06:19 PM   #8
Cpstar1976
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Re: 5c hi/lo

I thought about 3b pre but the 9 dangler pushed me to just CC. I felt if I 3b pre and get 4b by MP I would have to fold good EQ away. I most certainly would if the 9 was a $W card. Plus MP pretty nitty player so that factored into it as well
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Old 03-09-2020, 06:29 PM   #9
amok
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Re: 5c hi/lo

Of course I was joking a bit, calling is good, but I seriously think 3-betting is absolutely horrible. You are not pushing equity against a reasonable range, you are in very bad shape when 4-bet, high SPR is much better for this hand IP and so on, I mean I'm sure everyone understands it.
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Old 03-09-2020, 11:18 PM   #10
Asta0
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Re: 5c hi/lo

Good play
Betting pot is clearly the best option here, you want to pot all in on most turn against the fish.
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Old 03-18-2020, 06:17 PM   #11
BHDonkey
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Re: Big O hand

All depends on opponent...I play with PLO8 players who will ONLY raise with sets (assuming no straight/flush)...literally 100% of the time...it's like they don't realize that a wrap/flush draw combo is a favorite, especially if there is a low involved.

If one of these players were to CR me here, I would dump second set 100% of the time...unless I had some other draws.
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:15 AM   #12
treetop21
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Re: Big O hand

I would pot flop/go broke here.
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:05 AM   #13
OmahaDonk
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Re: 5c hi/lo

Quote:
Originally Posted by amok View Post
Pre-flop is obv fold btw

Of course I was joking a bit
MP is described as nitty, this hand is going to do poorly against that opening range. For example this flop: we hit gin and are still confused with lots of bad runouts..basically every runout that doesn't pair the board.

In game I probably call pre cause it's live on the button, but after the fact wish I had folded almost every time.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:23 AM   #14
monikrazy
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Re: Big O hand

Range construction for 5c o8 is extremely complicated but there are still a lot of compelling arguments to 3! This hand. At least some of my reasoning:

1. It plays better hu than multiway
2. Calling effectively caps our range and makes it much harder to represent the most premium aa/a2 combos, unless hero is a balancing genius.
3. I'm not particularly worried about hero strategy vs a 4! And sometimes folding. Its not like hero will always realize full equity with this hand post on many textures, and may still pay for it when dominated by the types of hand that can 4!.
4. While i agree we are not pushing much if any equity pre-flop, i think our positional advantage postflop is quite lucrative when we hand select properly, so making the pot bigger is still more positive than negative
5. Post-flop playability is strong, the hand has good nut potential, semi-bluff potential, showdown value, the lack of counterfeit protection with this type of hand is mostly a positive because it improves high strength.. also its pretty easy for hero to get away from this hand on unfriendly textures which is really important, our hand will block important combinations that make it easier to hand-read villains

Of course, i think this strategy is enhanced by smallish 3! Sizes such as 2.2 - 2.5x
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:56 AM   #15
amok
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Re: 5c hi/lo

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk View Post
MP is described as nitty, this hand is going to do poorly against that opening range. For example this flop: we hit gin and are still confused with lots of bad runouts..basically every runout that doesn't pair the board.
Oh I agree, folding is not bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk View Post
In game I probably call pre cause it's live on the button, but after the fact wish I had folded almost every time.
I don't know what you mean "it's live on the button". I call because SB is a weak player, but don't hate folding.
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Old 03-22-2020, 04:58 PM   #16
OmahaDonk
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Re: Big O hand

Live as in we barely see any hands, button as in we want to expand our range
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Old 05-07-2020, 04:35 PM   #17
oscillator
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Re: Big O hand

I kind of like OPs thought process here considering a chk back with these stacks ip, makes a lot of sense to me with effectively no blockers and no backdoor equity. If we didn't block the 3 I think you get some more value in good vs K3 combos.

Sometimes you play a hand that connects strongly with you, but the texture just isnt favorable to shovel a bunch of money in.

I think only betting extremely small ( like extremely ) keeps much desired value in that might be pot controlling, which is basically just going to be AK without spades, but I think playability is going to be so rough on the majority of runouts, assuming people bluff some % of the time, I would feel pretty happy balancing my chk back range with this. I'd be pretty happy winning a smallish to medium sized pot with our high position on this board

If you have a table full of less experienced players who are going to go out on their shield with AK2 AA2 then pot makes sense but I'd expect them just to bomb themselves.

Beats me, but I like the spot thanks
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