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Old 08-07-2018, 02:07 AM   #1
kisada
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Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

Full 8-handed table. 1/2 blinds.

I'm in BB. $500.

I have A2348 suited to my 2 and 3.


Folds all the way up to CO.

CO ($200) raises to $7. Dunno him.

BTN (covers me) raises to $21. LAG in that he likes to 3b a fair amount pre and can be quite loose with his overall opening range.

SB folds

up to me in BB.


I feel like when we get to the flop and start jamming, the confidence of my jam hands is going to be mitigated substantially on most FD flops. Almost feels like my options for going high are kinda compromised 3-way.

Beyond that, we're playing a pot deep OP and if CO comes along, flops will go all in quite often.

Is this too conservative a fold, all things considered? If this hand is a fold, how about if we change the 8 to a 5 or a 6?

Thanks
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Old 08-07-2018, 05:56 AM   #2
amok
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

I think calling is OK, since BTN sounds like a player who puts a lot of money in bad sometimes.
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:53 PM   #3
kisada
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

thanks, i think that certainly might be the most important point here, i.e. villain possibly jamming with second nut low draws and such.
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Old 08-08-2018, 04:57 AM   #4
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

I think fold is fine with all the info provided, limited hi potential is never good

There are still reasonable arguments to call

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Old 08-08-2018, 03:40 PM   #5
TS2
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

fold is fine... call if u r capable of getting away from being 1/4
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:52 PM   #6
ryang
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

depends on CO opening range and what this particular LAG has in his 3b range given the game. If he's loose enough to be 3betting high hands then calling, or even cold 4b is feasible.

folding in this spot can never be terrible, for when you cold call, your a bit face up.

also, your table image matters.
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Old 09-04-2018, 03:22 AM   #7
GiantWalleye
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

If you are folding A234X preflop you should probably consider playing a different game.
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:10 AM   #8
UnnaturalDisaster
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantWalleye View Post
If you are folding A234X preflop you should probably consider playing a different game.
If you think A2348 is a strong hand you should probably consider playing a different game
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:52 PM   #9
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnnaturalDisaster View Post
If you think A2348 is a strong hand you should probably consider playing a different game
Why is this a bad starting hand?
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Old 10-22-2018, 04:37 PM   #10
amok
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity Well View Post
Why is this a bad starting hand?
ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
A234842.90% 135,987203,37931,388159,817136,894
10%57.10% 228,765365,23331,3886,784136,894
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:37 PM   #11
Gravity Well
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by amok View Post
ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
A234842.90% 135,987203,37931,388159,817136,894
10%57.10% 228,765365,23331,3886,784136,894
I don't understand what the second line is showing. Does this mean that the top 10% of hands have 57% equity?

How much equity does a hand need to be a good starting hand?
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Old 10-23-2018, 04:54 PM   #12
amok
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity Well View Post
I don't understand what the second line is showing. Does this mean that the top 10% of hands have 57% equity?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity Well View Post
How much equity does a hand need to be a good starting hand?
Hard to say. The more the better.
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:09 PM   #13
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

I think its tough to use a preflop equity calculator to think that you would realize anywhere near that equity amount. Post flop playability of having nutty hands is way more likely to realize its equity especially in big bet games.

While hands like K234hAh and AK23h4h will have similarish equity, the nut flush A4hh draw will realize its equity way more than a 34hh draw
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:57 PM   #14
amok
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Re: Big O - A2348 baby suited facing cold 3B pre, deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmyrage View Post
I think its tough to use a preflop equity calculator to think that you would realize anywhere near that equity amount. Post flop playability of having nutty hands is way more likely to realize its equity especially in big bet games.
Well, OTOH hands like A2348 tend to realize equity well since A8 is pretty much never good if you "miss" the board. Same doesn't go for AK. I'm saying that A234 is nutty (disregarding flushes), because equity is concentrated on certain boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmyrage View Post
While hands like K234hAh and AK23h4h will have similarish equity, the nut flush A4hh draw will realize its equity way more than a 34hh draw
Their equity difference is ~1,2% against 100% range and ~1,5% against 15% range, hardly similarish.

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
AsKd4h3h2c50.98% 171,695227,38054,670182,704134,142
15%49.02% 160,458317,95054,6707,991134,142

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
AhKd4h3s2c52.55% 180,905240,15654,104182,133133,808
15%47.45% 154,225305,74054,1047,963133,808

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
AsKd4h3h2c57.87% 244,128265,08715,854296,10130,548
100%42.13% 153,152319,05915,85411,69830,548

ProPokerTools 5-Card Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
AhKd4h3s2c59.05% 253,374274,92516,155295,81230,612
100%40.95% 148,695308,92016,15511,77830,612
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