I saw on pocketfives that pokerfox.net is supposed to have PLO8 videos, but once I visited that site it says that it's been aquired by pokerxfactor. I checked PXF but can't tell if Fox actually has any PLO8 videos on there. In other words, there are 18 videos by Fox but, not one is labeled as a PLO8 video... I'd appriciate if someone can point me to a site that has a good and quality selection of PLO8 videos. Thanks in advance!

d'

Your search will be very difficult as game is not documented well enough and there are far less professionals than in no limit hold'em, probably because it is much more of a difficult art to master. Should you find any videos they will probably not be anywhere near sufficient enough to teach you what you need to know because of the greater amount of intricacies involved.

If you want my recommendation [of where to go], I promise it will be the best you will ever encounter online. Since I believe it is frowned-upon to promote 3rd parties in this forum, you should PM me requesting details.

you're going to recommend adamtheexpert as usual?

i emailed stox and CR about making plo08 vids, both never replied, i guess my stats werent good enough to warrant teaching others, which actually worked out for the better imo

one of the best things one can do as a critical thinker is to play the game. sit at two tables at the stakes you want to play (or one level below). play only A2xx, A3Wx, 23Wx, AAxx, KKxx (for top set value only), and any four broadway. only continue on the flop if you have a nut draw and (preferably) some sort of high (1 pr is good enough if you have the nut low draw). datamine these tables for an hour or two, and then review the hands in pto.

see how people play various hands. consider where they had value (run the ev number in the replayer) and where they could have or should have been more aggressive.

if you need more info, rinse and repeat. look for tables with different dynamics so that you can learn about different styles (e.g., lag, nit, etc.) and how to exploit them. as you get better, you can open up your starting hand range and play "normally".

my guess is that this experiment will be cheaper than joining any poker training site (if not profitable), and a critical thinker will get a much deeper understanding of the nuances of the game by doing that. fwiw, i still do this to research opponents against whom i feel i'm not playing well.

LV, got your PM! I looked at the forum, but just briefly and to be honest so far am not impressed. What are this so called "exprert's" credentials??? Does he have any videos, or at least PT stats of some sort???

d'

I honestly think that in the case of LV and ATE, the pupil has surged past the master in terms of verbal skills, editing punctuation, and possibly even play.

There are no credentials, just 20 years of playing poker, teaching, dealing, etc.

Read his articles. If you think they are BS then continue searching a good site. If you like them then stick with them.

I don't play high stakes so I don't know the big names who post here. I read every advice on this forum without knowing any credentials from any player. I just read and go "ok this is great advice." or "this is bad." or "this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.".

Judge for yourself and put it into practice. If it works stick with it, if it doesn't then throw it away.

Who the hell is Buzz? Where are his Poker Tracker stats and graphs? How much does he wins playing live?

Pfff. I don't care.

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." - Buddha

Good take on it mercyful, I like it. With that mindset I'm more apt to give my opinion on a hand without worrying I'm giving bad advice. If I give bad advice then you don't have to take it!

As far as the best training sites... I have to say you're on the best place on the web to learn right now, the 2+2 O8 forums. These forums are just the best imho.

Mercyful, I liked your post! The reason why I asked about credentials is b/c I opened randomly a couple of posts on that forum only to see the "expert" pump his coaching services. Whenever I see stuff like that, I can't help but be a bit skeptical. But I will check the info out for myself and see if it helps my game...

d'

I've mostly agreed with ATE's advice and enjoyed his humor... but I mean seriously, the dude PM'd me sometime last year asking if I could loan him money one of the poker sites???

I'm not sure if verifiable experts regularly need stakers.

The content of what he has to offer is what we're after - if we wanted to go and see perfect written English we'd ask Jane Austen what her take on Omaha high low is.

I don't want to hijack this thread and/or promote his website and turn this thread into the pro's and cons of Adam Cadle. All I'm saying is that, *IMO*, he offers excellent training specialised in O8 - and other than from the very top players like Mark Gregorich, Bobby Baldwin, Mike Matusow and of course Ray Zee, you won't find anything better when it comes to personalised tuition and I think that no YouTube video or whatever from some high roller punk kid is going to come close.

I doubt I am anywhere near as good at it as he is and I'm pretty sure he would completely own me at pot limit.

He isn't really playing much or working a job these days due to various personal issues.

You've been reading and posting in this forum for a while now. Seems like you should know. But since you ask, I'll tell you. My given name is Frank Jerome. Buzz is an old nickname used by many of my old friends and when I started posting on 2+2, I chose that old nickname.

Omaha-8 has somehow become my hobby. My cardiologist advises me to avoid stress and thus I'm strictly a recreational, low-limit player. That's all the Omaha-8 I ever see in the casinos I visit anyway. I enjoy Omaha-8 tournaments, and still play in them when I get a chance. I've played some pot-limit Omaha-8 in private games and a tiny bit on-line. I'm a long term student of the game of Omaha-8, a frequent poster on this site and one of two current active moderators of this site. As a moderator here, I read every post on this site.

There is a current three part series, written by me, involving considerations on the river in the May, June, and July editions of the 2+2 on-line magazine. Read it and judge its merit for yourself.
I'm surprised you ask. Seems to me in poor taste to ask how much money someone makes. It's really none of your business. That's just my opinion.
Then why mention it?

Buzz

You forgot to add that one of the aces should be suited. The 4 to a braodway should also be suited andplayed in late position.

Anyway very good advice. The main thing to learn in PLO/8 is to avoid all the traps. But I don't think the training sites are worth the money.

Its pretty easy to run out of money just by spending more then you earn, the whole banking industry works staking people that have regular income but for some reason are always broke.

P.S

And if he asked you in private it should stay so, why post it on public boards.

I did a video at DeucesCracked on PLO8 and will likely be doing more.

Note: Buzz, DeucesCracked sponsors the training forum, so don't delete this

-greg

Hi Greg - O.K.

I still feel badly about deleting your other post (way back when). It was a mistake for me to do so. Again, my apologies for that. You have made many valuable contributions to this site and with your own site. Much appreciated.

For what it's worth I agree with Kuso and you in this thread. (That's not to imply I don't agree with others). But I thought Kuso gave excellent advice herein, and your addition is reasonable.

regards,

Buzz

absolutely not

because:
A)i don't trust people who beg strangers for money
B)if someone is going to consider paying this guy for private lessons they should be aware of what he's really like
C)i found it personally insulting

you have openly posted other 2+2 members' private hands and possibly embarrassed them. so much for privacy...

Buzz, didn't want to start a new thread... How hard is it to find a live PLO8 game in LA casinos???

d'

The hand was played on a full table that anyone could watch anyway and I was personally involved in it, I apologized for it afterwards if that matters. Comparing these two things is absurd. I presume he didnt come to a table you played at and asked in observer chat "dave give me a few bucks cause I am busto". As for your A,B,C points its your opinion, probably if that guy knew it he would have never asked. Lets say that there is a whole marketplace on 2+2 where good winning players ask for a stake or simply want to sell action for example lately bigjoe2003 wanted to sell parts of him for the 50K WSOP event. Its not like he was begging, just reducing variance.

Well if someone is running a business I wouldnt try to scare of his potential customers unless the person was a well known cheat, why try to ruin it if its decent and there are satisfied customers like OP.

To dream, the impossible dream.....

I've seen a sign-up list for one and have had my initials listed, but I never have actually seen one materialize in a Los Angeles area casino.

Some 2+2ers have gotten games going in Las Vegas casinos, and maybe there's one going there right now. But I think PLO8 games are hard to keep going anywhere. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think PLO8 is sustainable in a brick and mortar casino. The game itself is a lot of fun and some day I hope I'll get to play in such a game, although I fully expect to lose all the money I have with me.

The last time I played PLO8 in a private game, the guy sitting directly on my left owned me. I still remember my last hand in that game, which cost me everything I had left, about eighty bucks. I made aces full and hoped he had made kings full. (But he had quad kings). In a limit game, I would not have been phased by that - just part of the game - a hurtful part, but no big deal. But the devastating result of that hand, coupled with getting pounded on all session ended that particular session for me. That sort of thing will inevitably happen in a casino when the game is offered, there won't be a long line of people waiting to get their butts kicked, and the game will die. (I hope I'm wrong).

At any rate, I have never seen a game of PLO8 offered in any brick and mortar casino while I have been there, and I look every time.

Buzz

Hi Buzz, I was being rhetorical, is that how you say it? I was trying to make the point that I don't go around asking for your credentials before reading your posts.

I've known ATE for 2 years and a half and as far as I know he has never cheated or ripped anyone off. So in his defense, nobody should worry about that, he's legit. I can guarantee it.

He's been broke for some time now that's why he asks for money. Nobody pays him anything for what he writes so I don't mind lending him $5 from time to time. There are several reasons why he's broke but none of them is because he doesn't know how to play poker.

VERY hard. I heard Alaska has some good PLO8 games sometimes.

There's no market for them. I did one, for the site I am associated with, and not only did some of the people who requested it, not comment on it, but it also got some bad reviews which probably didn't help matters. I don't mind bad reviews, fwiw, but they were pretty inaccurate ones. It was actually quite a good video. Or at least the last hand was.

As to not caring whether the advice you get is well written or not, well I also don't agree. English is supposed to be a language where the precise words count. That's why there are so many of them. Anyone who claims that they give good advice but their English sucks is on thin ice.

gl

bdd

PS. I just read some adamtheexpert stuff...to quote him on limit Omaha hilo: "Since a 234K with suited king can make a great two-way hand (with the right board cards) It's worth putting in one small bet, REGARDLESS OF FREAKIN' POSITION,"

Hmm.