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Old 05-06-2016, 05:49 PM   #151
ThankU
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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Sorry. Hopefully I'll work out the kinks. I have devoted much of my time to FLO8 and would love to write a book on the subject when the time is right. I have an interest in PLO8, but only tournaments since I think edges are biggest in this format and they don't require the time investment cash requires.

The conventional wisdom regarding split-pot games is to play hands that can scoop, right? So for years, the mantra has been "Go low and hope for high." Well, if everyone else is doing that, the best response is to play hands that exploit this tendency, i.e. high-only hands. This has its limitations of course, but it is always on my mind when playing split-pot games. Additionally, I think about clean/dirty outs and re-evaluating equity based on action more than anyone else I've ever met, and this is almost untouched in the split-pot literature/videos.
I like. I'm always considering this too and against midstakes+ and almost always throwing more PLO type hands in the mix considering the norm is vice versa. Last venetian deepstack LO8 tourney I won I raised something like 889T DS 3/5ths of the way through the tournament and got so much action on the flopped nuts. Nobody believed me and low never made it there. Still had 2 callers that instamucked river when I showed. No longer had nuts but good enough.

Haha I've been so berated for winning a large pot in a cash game (LO8) with a similar hand too 3betting pre I believe 3way.. (Also creating a meta-dynamic in SH) Guy was going off on what a moronic fish I was for the next like 30 minutes until he was broke... Always fun

Last edited by ThankU; 05-06-2016 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:20 PM   #152
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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Hi barber, nice well.

In a loose table where players are trying to see flops and aren't afraid to call bets. What would be your 3b range from and tabe like this?
.
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Old 05-07-2016, 02:59 AM   #153
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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Hi barber, nice well.

In a loose table where players are trying to see flops and aren't afraid to call bets. What would be your 3b range from and tabe like this?
My apologies for not seeing this before. Versus players who are more willing to call with a wide range of hands you should be raising the more marginal low hands and raising with stuff you'd normally limp/overlimp. As far as 3b range, as someone's PFR goes up, you want to 3b stuff that has both high and low potential and the quality of each can go down as their PFR goes up.
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Old 05-07-2016, 03:25 AM   #154
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

Great well. I find the current Bovada 30/60 LO8 very soft most of the time -- can't imagine how juicy it was like in the before time. Some LO8 PF questions:

How do you rate biggish pairs with poor side cards? For example, QQ46ss or KKJ3ss. Would you play these IP after a raise and a few callers; would you open these OTB or in the CO?

Re: 3 low cards no ace. For seriously? Take 2(45)Q. This hand looks like garbage to me, even in a 5+ way pot. I wouldn't touch it in a tighter/stronger game, or open it OTB. I'd want at least a 23 combo, suited to a high card, or double suited.
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:01 PM   #155
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

not opening 245 rainbow on btn is pretty bad imo.
my default is to open qq46 and q245 in co, and only kkj3 on btn vs tight blinds.
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:09 PM   #156
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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People don't discount obvious outs nearly as much as they should be, but more importantly, people don't realize how clean they are drawing on draws that are less obvious. Furthermore, scoop outs are not seen as more important, despite being twice as valuable.
Can someone dumb this down for me? I've read this like 10 times and i'm still confused what point he's trying to get across.
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Old 05-08-2016, 05:17 PM   #157
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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not opening 245 rainbow on btn is pretty bad imo.
my default is to open qq46 and q245 in co, and only kkj3 on btn vs tight blinds.
Pretty much nailed it.
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Old 05-08-2016, 06:53 PM   #158
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

Your plans for the coming WSOP?
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:03 AM   #159
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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Your plans for the coming WSOP?
Play a full schedule and hopefully win another bracelet .

I feel really good about my poker lately. I don't get to play as much these days, but I'm constantly thinking about it and trying to stay sharp. I'm really excited for the 1500 O8 in particular. I've got high hopes for that event.
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Old 05-12-2016, 06:57 AM   #160
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

Great thread, thx. LO8 has quickly become my favorite/best game. I love it, esp shorthanded. No questions atm.

Just wow at Bleznicks behavior. What a tool.
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:08 AM   #161
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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High-only hands, double-suited hands, and double-paired hands are undervalued.
Could you expand on this? I get there are certain spots where they hold decent value, but those are pretty rare in my experience.
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Old 05-12-2016, 03:16 PM   #162
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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I am 22/30 in $33 nightly plo8 on Bovada w 27 spots paying I have 15k in chips... blinds 600/1200, active chip leader opens UTG +2 to 2500.. fold around to me in the small blind with AK57 with A5 of spades, what should I do and why?

5 best fixed limit O8 players in the world in your opinion.

Thanks for doing this, loved watching you and Harrington10 go at it at WSOP.. glad you busted him...

I'd fold. To close to money bubble and can find better spots.
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Old 05-12-2016, 03:38 PM   #163
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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This is my thought, too. Right now, the return just isn't there. If I knew writing a book were worth exactly 100k, I think that would be enough for me to write it since it would be hard to extract more than that from the players that might read it.

Another consideration for me is that the idea of producing new information, actually creating something, that people would want to read is such a fantastic bucket list item that I might do it for less. How many people do you know that are published authors?




I think it is hard relative to big bet games, but I think it will be one of the last games to be solved. If we played 100 hands of LHE, I think we might only disagree on a few hands if it were 6m and maybe a few more if it were HU/3-handed. In FLO8, there is so much artistry in choice of lines and trying to solve how the other person values their high equity and low equity and how they play each half of the pot that we might disagree on 25% of hands.

In my novice opinion, PLO8 forces you to abandon all of the marginal spots you see in FLO8 because of concerns that you don't face in a limit structure. Most of the value in the game is from people who don't see the vast divide between the two games. I want to laugh when people talk to me about folding bad A2 hands in FLO8
Lol, was just playing 8/16 LO8 at Orleans yesterday for a couple of hours.. This one guy was ONLY playing AA or A2 hands and super transparent. I remembered one point (he was to my direct right) I called UTG (I'm trying to get in more pots than normal, because of another SUPER loose-passive tilt guy 2 to my left who's calling anything for any raise size and calling down super light continually mentioning how bad he's running just rebought 400$ more --)... . Anyways. It's a kill pot, so 12$ in for everyone round the table.. and on this particular hand everyone except one person calls at a full table, and BB folds w/8$ in... I'm like did he really just fold... and he was a reg there it sounded like...

Last edited by ThankU; 05-12-2016 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 05-12-2016, 04:46 PM   #164
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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Could you expand on this? I get there are certain spots where they hold decent value, but those are pretty rare in my experience.
Consider TT99. In pots where there is lots of action, we can discount the number of Ts and 9s in people's hands since those aren't played as much, and the corollary to this is that the deck should be full of Ts and 9s.

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Lol, was just playing 8/16 LO8 at Orleans yesterday for a couple of hours.. This one guy was ONLY playing AA or A2 hands and super transparent. I remembered one point (he was to my direct right) I called UTG (I'm trying to get in more pots than normal, because of another SUPER loose-passive tilt guy 2 to my left who's calling anything for any raise size and calling down super light continually mentioning how bad he's running just rebought 400$ more --)... . Anyways. It's a kill pot, so 12$ in for everyone round the table.. and on this particular hand everyone except one person calls at a full table, and BB folds w/8$ in... I'm like did he really just fold... and he was a reg there it sounded like...
Yeah. People folding in the BB or in the kill for one more bet will always make me smile.
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Old 05-13-2016, 06:56 AM   #165
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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Consider TT99. In pots where there is lots of action, we can discount the number of Ts and 9s in people's hands since those aren't played as much, and the corollary to this is that the deck should be full of Ts and 9s.
Makes perfect sense. Thx again, great thread. GL this year!
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Old 05-13-2016, 02:56 PM   #166
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

I thought it was generally accepted that two pairs 9+ are decent hands especially multiway.
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Old 05-13-2016, 05:07 PM   #167
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

Been out of the loop awhile....damn, Zhukov kid is a beast it seems!
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Old 05-13-2016, 05:29 PM   #168
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

You said you had an interest in plo8 tournaments, especially sngs. Have you played any online outside of bovada lately, like Merge or WPN?

Was wondering because I'm always looking for good players to play against and help keep o8 sngs active. WPN especially, since it would be pretty much rake-free for all of us if o8 was a bit more active because of the SnC promo structure. Probably wouldn't be a great hourly rate for you, but overall it's got some of the most solid players to practice against. It's the closest we can get to pokerstars anyway.

And if I remember correctly you said you were from IL originally, are you still a Cubs fan and which part of IL anyways? Because this might be the year they win it all finally
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Old 05-15-2016, 11:55 PM   #169
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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You said you had an interest in plo8 tournaments, especially sngs. Have you played any online outside of bovada lately, like Merge or WPN?

Was wondering because I'm always looking for good players to play against and help keep o8 sngs active. WPN especially, since it would be pretty much rake-free for all of us if o8 was a bit more active because of the SnC promo structure. Probably wouldn't be a great hourly rate for you, but overall it's got some of the most solid players to practice against. It's the closest we can get to pokerstars anyway.

And if I remember correctly you said you were from IL originally, are you still a Cubs fan and which part of IL anyways? Because this might be the year they win it all finally
I just play live and on Bovada, and that's enough for me. I am from Illinois originally, so I like the Cubs. This does seem like their year.
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Old 05-27-2016, 12:13 PM   #170
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

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If any currency "printed" has a corresponding obligation greater than its nominal value (due to interest also being due), how does "printing" more currency allow for complete repayment of the debt?
If you talk about a government or large corporation, then inflation can be greater than interest payments. Interest is ~ -0.5 to +1% recently. If inflation is bigger than interest, then printing money reduces debt liability in real terms by a greater amount each year.

It is easy to understand as we know $1 million in 1970 bought more raw materials than you can buy with $1 million today. If money itself is worth less in real terms then future debts are also worth less. Large debts are normally consolidated by physical goods. If you take a mortgage with agreed terms and the value of money goes down while the "utility" of the property remains the same or goes up, then printing money and inflation reduces mortgage debt in real terms.

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If the same amount of each good and service was produced/consumed at the same continuous rate, but the price continuously increased, would you consider that growth?
That is called inflation, not growth. For there to be real terms growth there must be an expansion of consumption. It is sometimes true that countries get LOC (local currency) growth but negative growth compared to another benchmark (USD or basket of financial assets)
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Old 06-03-2016, 01:27 AM   #171
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

Great well. I didn't even know what a well was before this thread. I just read all the way through it to catch up. It's so cool to see such an experienced pro as yourself mingle with and respond to us plebs.

I've barely played any Omaha let alone O8 but I think it's a very interesting game and at least part of the future of poker. PLO8 is my uncle's favorite game, and FLO8 is his most profitable, so I'm definitely trying to learn from him and from everyone.

NLO8 really is an action game. When I play it at my home game, people are raising 5x blind and shoving/calling 60bb deep with basically any 4 cards. I think part of the reason is that people realize that it's hard to be worse than 40/60 preflop. If you get it in with 35% equity, it's about as bad as it can possibly be. So really it is a postflop game when you're playing deepstacked, but as a preflop game, it's just a shovefest, which is great for the gamblers. And great also of course for the people who can just constantly get it in with a very slight edge over a sufficient sample size to grind out a profit. I wish I were a member of the latter than the former (a grinder rather than a gambler )
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:05 PM   #172
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

On the turn of a board showing Q8Q4, Sun Kwak checks to Andrew Barber, who bets out. Kwak checkraises, and Barber calls to see the 9 on the river. Kwak checks again, and Barber bets out again. This time, Kwak just calls. Barber says, "Nuts," and shows Qs9hTd3d for top full house.

"Make sure that hand makes the Internet, please. I want people to know what hands I'm playing," Barber says as the pot is pushed to him. Despite that hand, Barber is down early on in this event.
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:22 AM   #173
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

Really enjoyed your interview on the 2p2 Pokercast Andrew along with your article/post. Yourself and Terrence explained well a lot of points regarding markup that I think a lot of us had considered in the past but hadn't really though deeply about.
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Old 06-18-2016, 01:44 AM   #174
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

What's the main difference to be successful in 08 MTT vs PLO8 tournaments?

I'm extremely strong at PLO8 in MTTs but trying to improve at 08.
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:45 AM   #175
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Re: Andrew Barber's well

Andrew,

I listened to the 6/10 2p2 pokercast, when you discussed selling at MU.

Do you think a viable alternative would be to use a dutch auction system, where the seller sets (multiple?... transparent?) parameters?
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