Quote:
Originally Posted by abarber
Speaking empirically,
I guess by "empirically," you mean from your own experience. (You cannot mean experimentally).
Quote:
only being able to continue ~13.5% of the time seems a little too narrow,
Exactly.
Quote:
especially considering that we are going to be making some light peels on boards where there are turn cards that shift the equity towards us dramatically. A good example of this would be peeling KQJT in a 4-way raised pot on 269 (or some variant). If you graph our equity, we can have >60% equity 4-ways on 25% of turns (versus some reasonable hand ranges). That's pretty awesome.
I don't know where you get the better than 60% equity. When I simulate the hand against random hands after a flop of 269, I find KQJT-rainbow to be a seriously big dog. 269 is a flop which, in my opinion, completely misses KQJT.
In my humble opinion, Hero, holding KQJT-rainbow, fares better with a flop of 26T or 26K, but not enough better to continue to a bet from an opponent on round #2 (after the flop). And that has me folding KQJT-rainbow to every single flop with two or three low cards (and some flops with one or no high cards).
Quote:
It may very well be the case that I'm not going to convince you that such a hand has a lot of value,
If you're convinced KQJT-rainbow has a lot of value, then I think you must be finding some way to extract value. I'm in awe of that.
My problem with the hand is I cannot get past the flop often enough to make the hand profitable. And it's too pretty a hand to use as a misleading show-down hand (to imply excessive looseness).
By the way, playing Omaha-high I think KQJT-rainbow is a fine hand... but at least thus far for me, in Omaha-8, it's a dog. And if that one is a dog, so are all rainbow hands with three of those cards plus one low card, at least for me.
Quote:
but I think that after accounting for shared outs for other players, scoop equity, and knowing which turns/rivers to fold, it behooves strong players to add it to the hands they would VPIP.
You have company. I believe many strong players include KQJT-rainbow in their arsenal. But at least for my playing style, 13.5% playability after the flop is insufficient.
Thanks for your attention. I don't mean to clutter up your well.
Buzz