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07-03-2009 , 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangepeel
ok i have to ask, why are you more inclined to call this preflop if he is tight rather than if he is loose?
Because 3-4-5-6 is too easily dominated by a wide range of starting hands and/or is too easily in a spot where it can get no better than half; so if I can put the pre-flop raiser on a more specific, limited set of premium starting hands, I have a much better chance of knowing when I am likely to be ahead and am more likely to get my money in with the best of it.
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07-03-2009 , 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MostlyBS
would you call if he shoves on the turn?
I'm sort of surprised he didn't shove for value
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07-03-2009 , 10:48 AM
PokerStars, $1/2 Omaha Hi/Lo Cash Games, 9 Players
Hand Converter by Pokerhand.org

Board:
zivTLV (CO): $186.75
Pandochat (Button): $200
donrio35 (SB): $213.90
atmguy (BB): $256
rossmoves (UTG): $86
paulstar11 (UTG+1): $68.70
lakid12345 (MP1): $17
Checkada (MP2): $110
nutsbabys (MP3): $137.25

Dealt to donrio35 6 K 3 A

Pre-flop:
(6 folds), Pandochat calls $2, donrio35 calls $1, atmguy raises to $10, Pandochat calls $8, donrio35 calls $8

Flop: ($32) 7 5 2 (3 Players)
donrio35 checks, atmguy bets $8, (1 folds), donrio35 calls $8

Turn: ($48) J (2 Players)
donrio35 checks, atmguy checks

River: ($48) K (2 Players)
donrio35 bets $25, atmguy raises to $50, donrio35 raises to $195.90 and is all-in, atmguy calls $145.90

Results:
donrio35 Showed 6 K 3 A
atmguy Showed K 9 Q 9
donrio35 wins $217.40
donrio35 wins $217.40

His name is accurate atleast.
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07-03-2009 , 11:35 AM
take a deep breath and go for it!


$25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi-Lo - 7 players

SB: $24.53
BB: $25.00
UTG: $25.00
UTG+1: $21.51
MP: $18.84
CO: $67.41
Hero (BTN): $37.01

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with 5 J 3 2
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, SB raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($4.50) Q 4 A (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets $4.28, Hero raises to $17.12, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $17.12, CO calls $12.84

Turn: ($55.86) 4 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Hero bets $19.14 all in, UTG+1 calls $3.64 all in, CO folds

River: ($63.14) 7 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $63.14
UTG+1 shows 8 2 6 3 (a pair of Fours)
Hero shows 5 J 3 2 (a pair of Fours with Jack kicker)


It would have been too sweet to scoop with J5 here.
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07-03-2009 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by niss
Because 3-4-5-6 is too easily dominated by a wide range of starting hands and/or is too easily in a spot where it can get no better than half; so if I can put the pre-flop raiser on a more specific, limited set of premium starting hands, I have a much better chance of knowing when I am likely to be ahead and am more likely to get my money in with the best of it.
I think I have to disagree with this. Assuming that premium hands most of the time include at least one ace and at least two wheel cards. I feel 3456 plays very badly against thoses hands. When you get a good, but not great flop, maybe 357 or 24x, I think you'll rarely be doing well against a tight player willing to commit a lot of chips on those flops. Sure, when you hit a perfect flop you'll be in good shape, but that can be said about almost any hand.

I understand that you can say about a player "OK he is a nit who only plays A2W/A3W type hands, I can know when he has missed and blow him off his hand." But, I wouldn't be excited about having 3456 against A23x/A24x for a hand matchup.

To me, saying "I like having 3456 against premium low hands" is like saying "I like having AQ vs AK because when I hit my Q I'm way ahead." Yes, that's true, but you hit your queen rarely and when you hit your ace you get into trouble.
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07-03-2009 , 06:12 PM
I think you're missing a couple of things. I am heading out to dinner and will explain later.
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07-03-2009 , 06:19 PM
I'm just saying that I understand the value in calling raises from players who's pf raising range is way too tight, but I don't think 3456 is a particularly good hand to do it with. It's probably better than a marginal A2, since you can expect your A2 to be no good most of the time, but I don't think it's any better than most other semi-decent coordinated hands.
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07-03-2009 , 06:24 PM
Plo high is the devil or the ilustrated story of my downfall






Last edited by Borys313; 07-03-2009 at 06:32 PM.
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07-03-2009 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MostlyBS
would you call if he shoves on the turn?
SNAP!
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07-03-2009 , 11:03 PM
This is Right after you left Dorsal

PokerStars, $3/6 Omaha Hi/Lo Cash Games, 9 Players
Hand Converter by Pokerhand.org

Board:
donrio35 (BB): $202.10
rllalex (UTG): $441
vectile (UTG+1): $489
Márcio GCM (MP1): $261.55
gary7711 (MP2): $480.05
westwolves20 (MP3): $235.75
Missadoon (CO): $171
dabigbadrook (Button): $652.80
Pat141 (SB): $330.40

Dealt to donrio35 2 J 6 K

Pre-flop:
(3 folds), gary7711 calls $6, (2 folds), dabigbadrook raises to $30, (2 folds), gary7711 calls $24

Flop: ($69) T 4 Q (2 Players)
gary7711 checks, dabigbadrook bets $96, gary7711 calls $96

Turn: ($261) Q (2 Players)
gary7711 bets $126, dabigbadrook raises to $526.80 and is all-in, gary7711 calls $228.05 and is all-in, dabigbadrook returns $172.75

River: ($969.10) K (2 Players)

Results:
gary7711 Showed Q A 9 8
dabigbadrook Showed A K K 4
dabigbadrook wins $966.10
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07-04-2009 , 06:17 AM
Full Tilt Poker $5/$10 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $2891.25
BTN/SB: $1972.75

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BB with A 7 A 9
BTN/SB raises to $30, Hero raises to $2891.25 all in, BTN/SB calls $1942.75 all in

Flop: ($3945.50) 6 A Q

Turn: ($3945.50) 7

River: ($3945.50) K

Final Pot: $3945.50
Hero shows A 7 A 9 (HI: three of a kind, Aces)
BTN/SB shows A K 4 Q (HI: two pair, Aces and Kings)
Hero wins $3945.00
(Rake: $0.50)
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07-04-2009 , 06:18 AM
Full Tilt Poker $5/$10 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $1077.00
CO: $1312.50
BTN: $510.00
SB: $913.75

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BB with J 6 K J
CO calls $10, BTN calls $10, SB calls $5, Hero checks

Flop: ($40.00) T J J (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $24, CO folds, BTN raises to $500 all in, SB folds, Hero calls $476

Turn: ($1040.00) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($1040.00) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $1040.00
Hero shows J 6 K J (HI: four of a kind, Jacks)
BTN shows A T T 6 (HI: a full house, Tens full of Jacks)
Hero wins $1038.00
(Rake: $2.00)
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07-04-2009 , 06:33 AM
Full Tilt Poker $5/$10 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $5236.75
BTN/SB: $1613.75

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BB with 5 A 6 A
BTN/SB raises to $20, Hero raises to $5236.75 all in, BTN/SB calls $1593.75 all in

Flop: ($3227.50) A 7 T

Turn: ($3227.50) 9

River: ($3227.50) Q

Final Pot: $3227.50
Hero shows 5 A 6 A (HI: three of a kind, Aces)
BTN/SB shows 2 K 4 3 (HI: Ace King high)
Hero wins $3227.00
(Rake: $0.50)
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07-04-2009 , 06:37 AM
This is really great poker.
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07-04-2009 , 07:05 AM
I look at some of these hands and so much money is in play. I really want to know how the higher stake players learned to detach themselves from the value of money? Maybe its just because I'm poor, but I can't imagine wagering the equivalent to a couple weeks of blue collard work on one hand of poker. In Dorsal's last posted hand, some guy called 1.6K to chase a low draw. I can't even imagine! Did any of you start at lower stakes and work your way up or were you all just independently wealthy and started high? Very curious if anyone is willing to share (information that is, not money).
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07-04-2009 , 07:26 AM
Full Tilt Poker $3/$6 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $856.50
Hero (SB): $355.50
BB: $2496.75
UTG: $636.30
MP: $2145.15
CO: $1095.20

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is SB with 5 2 A A
1 fold, MP raises to $13.50, 1 fold, BTN requests TIME, 1 fold, Hero calls $10.50, BB calls $7.50

Flop: ($40.50) J A 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP bets $36, Hero raises to $148.50, BB folds, MP raises to $486, Hero calls $193.50 all in

Turn: ($724.50) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($724.50) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $724.50
Hero shows 5 2 A A (three of a kind, Aces)
MP shows 8 K J J (a straight, Ace high)
MP wins $721.50
(Rake: $3.00)
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07-04-2009 , 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarvaris
I look at some of these hands and so much money is in play. I really want to know how the higher stake players learned to detach themselves from the value of money? Maybe its just because I'm poor, but I can't imagine wagering the equivalent to a couple weeks of blue collard work on one hand of poker. In Dorsal's last posted hand, some guy called 1.6K to chase a low draw. I can't even imagine! Did any of you start at lower stakes and work your way up or were you all just independently wealthy and started high? Very curious if anyone is willing to share (information that is, not money).
I started very low, but I have been playing for a few years. Just worked my way!
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07-04-2009 , 07:31 AM
Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $413.70
Hero (SB): $522.50
BB: $435.20
CO: $79.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with Q A 5 A
CO calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $522.50 all in, BB calls $431.20 all in, 1 fold

Flop: ($874.40) 4 3 A

Turn: ($874.40) 6

River: ($874.40) 9

Final Pot: $874.40
Hero shows Q A 5 A (HI: three of a kind, Aces; LO: 6,5,4,3,A)
BB shows K T K J (HI: a pair of Kings)
Hero wins $436.20
Hero wins $436.20
(Rake: $2.00)
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07-04-2009 , 08:02 AM
Full Tilt Poker $3/$6 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $651.50
Hero (CO): $454.85
BTN: $1174.80
SB: $1168.50

Pre Flop: ($9.00) Hero is CO with 9 T 8 6
Hero raises to $21, 1 fold, SB calls $18, 1 fold

Flop: ($48.00) 5 T 7 (2 players)
SB bets $48, Hero raises to $192, SB raises to $624, Hero calls $241.85 all in

Turn: ($915.70) 2 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($915.70) A (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $915.70
Hero shows 9 T 8 6 (a pair of Tens)
SB shows 7 T J A (two pair, Aces and Tens)
SB wins $913.70
(Rake: $2.00)
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07-04-2009 , 08:02 AM
this is why i play HiLo and not HIGHHHHHHHHHHHH
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07-04-2009 , 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsal Fin
this is why i play HiLo and not HIGHHHHHHHHHHHH
I looked at the hand for about a minute straight thinking you got ripped off due to some kind of software malfunction not shipping you the low. Of course the quoted post was ironic, not literal. I'm slow.
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07-04-2009 , 08:33 AM
Full Tilt Poker $5/$10 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN/SB): $1026.70
BB: $1000.30

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BTN/SB with 4 5 2 T
Hero calls $5, BB checks

Flop: ($20.00) 3 A 7 (2 players)
BB bets $10, Hero raises to $27, BB calls $17

Turn: ($74.00) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $100, BB calls $100

River: ($274.00) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $863.30 all in, Hero calls $863.30

Final Pot: $2000.60
Hero shows 4 5 2 T (HI: a straight, Five high; LO: 5,4,3,2,A)
BB shows T 6 K 2 (HI: a pair of Twos; LO: 7,6,3,2,A)
Hero wins $1000.05
Hero wins $1000.05
(Rake: $0.50)
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07-04-2009 , 08:34 AM
Is it just me, or people like to give me money?
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07-04-2009 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sangaman
I'm just saying that I understand the value in calling raises from players who's pf raising range is way too tight, but I don't think 3456 is a particularly good hand to do it with. It's probably better than a marginal A2, since you can expect your A2 to be no good most of the time, but I don't think it's any better than most other semi-decent coordinated hands.
I don't think I'm saying it is any better than any other coordinated hand. Just saying I would never fold it -- or any other decent coordinated hand -- against a player whose pre-flop raising range is limited. It plays very well against AAxx, which is going to be a large part of the raiser's range. On other occasions where he has A2Lx, when you are prepared to go to the felt because you probably are ahead he will view the flop as favorable to him and also will go to the felt being behind and/or with you freerolling him. It often is a lose a little/win a lot situation.

Of course, the hand has to played correctly. Just jamming on any flop that appears to be a fit isn't it.
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07-04-2009 , 11:18 AM
niss - how do you like the mets season so far? and you thought it cant get worse after the 07/08 bullpen fiasco
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