1/2 Big O, eight players

CO, nit reg: $400 (200 bb)
Hero (LP), recreational player, not terrible: $400 (200 bb)
MP, fish: $200 (100 bb)

So I have Ac 7s 5s 5d 3c in late position. Pre-flop, I call a small raise from EP (wouldn't have called a bigger raise, I think just $7 or so), five to the flop.

Flop: 8h 5c 4d

So I have mid-set, very good low (not A2, but A3 is okay here in some spots), backdoor nut-flush draw, mediocre straight draw.

Two checks to MP; he bets pot ($24), I raise pot ($48). CO calls, MP calls, everyone else folds.

Turn: 7c

So I now have a flush draw, a boat draw (albeit not the best boat, but if my opponents are going for low it might work), and still a solid low (A3), which could be nut-low if a 2 comes out (counterfeiting my opponents). MP checks, I check, CO bets pot (~$150). MP calls all-in, and I think for a while, ultimately make the call.

River: 10c

I've now made the nut flush, so am guaranteed half the pot. I shove ~$200, CO calls.

Both opponents had A2, and one had a straight (so my set wasn't good, I had to improve to a flush or boat on the river).

I win $500 for high, opponents are quartered and split $250.



Basically I'm trying to figure out ... I probably shouldn't have raised on the flop? As I wasn't drawing to the nuts; I was trying to push out wrap/straight draws or any other mediocre hand that could get ahead of me by the river, but in retrospect, I dunno.

My call on the turn was arguably a bit loose but I figured worth the implied odds (9 outs for a boat, 9 outs for nut flush, 2 outs for nut low, and then A3 might be good for low about a third of the time). I think paying $150 for implied odds is reasonable there ... or not? Still trying to figure out Big O.

I think call flop and try to improve. Maybe you spike a 2 or boat or whatever and if not, eval whether to call riv.

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Agree, I think my flop raise was not ideal ...

If a pot bet on the flop is $24, then a pot raise on top of that is 4*$24=$96.

Raising the flop is simply bad, because A3 is extremely rarely good here. I think turn is wp.

sigh yes mistyped, I put in $96, which makes it an even worse raise ... also CO didn't bet pot (after the hand he said he wish he'd bet pot, $150 wasn't pot at that point)

I think flop is probably a fold. Call isn't awful but we don't want to overvalue bottom set.

As played turn call seems barely ok.

With Bdfd and middle set this is barely a call on flop.A3 is definitely not very good low

with 5 players in.Turn is clear call obv.

Flop action induced two folds, there are only 3 to the turn.

Prefer a call on the flop; worse low draws and 2 pair or worse hands are the ones your raise drives out.

Raising the Flop is in my opinion a big mistake, you don't even have top set and you could be dominated in both directions, you 're not heads up and especially you 're not the last one to act; if the player behind you raises the pot you must fold and you raised yourself out of the hand.
The next question is: what card you want to see on that turn to feel comfortable against two players? One 5 for quads, and two or three 2 for nut low, (you should expect at least one or two of these outs being blocked, just like it was).
If pairs the board you could face a higher full house, if the board doesn't pair you 're maybe getting scooped from a straight and a nut low.
This run out with backdoor nut flush was one of the few possible scenario for you to feel comfortable in this hand.

Just call flop. You could easily be crushed (<20%) here easily

Hi all - I agree, flop raise was ultimately a bad idea (esp. with five players), and I overvalued A3 for sure. Turn call was okay, but I shouldn't have inflated the pot. It was literally my second time ever playing Big O, which probably explains it lol

Well, it's true you wouldn't have called a bigger raise, but not for the reason you think. He raised the maximum allowed by law, so there's that.

You had a boat draw on the flop. Normally if you flop a set, you have 7 outs on the flop and it turns into 10 outs on the turn (assuming you miss). However in your case you managed to hit a card from your hand (hint: that's a bad thing), reducing your outs.

This isn't a big deal, but the problem is the language you're using (your opponents might be "going for low".) That's just amateurish thinking, so I would avoid that. Yes there will be times when you have a hand you can play one way, but only if it can't be shared (the nut flush for example.)

PLO/8 is a game of "AND". I have X for high (or high draw) AND I have Y for low (or low draw). In this hand I think you confused quantity for quality, which is a very, very common mistake. (I know you know you didn't have nut draws, but then you shoveled your chips in there, so....)

Honestly until you can maneuver around hands and really know what you're doing, I would just fold this on the flop. It's kind of a sucker hand that can very easily get scooped. I might call the flop and reassess the turn but it's marginal. Yes sometimes you will find you would have won on the river and you can't believe what those donkeys were playing, but usually when the money goes in you want quality, and I'm not really seeing it.

agree, I’ve stopped playing Big O until I do way more studying. I’m up a buy-in or so in the two sessions I’ve played so I’ll count that as luck and maybe try again with more knowledge

Yeah I hate flop raise, and if you're really trying to isolate the fish and get naked A2 out to clean up your low half, just raise pot. Nut low + gutter is never going to fold here so you're often just charging yourself for the high half of the pot. In this case, the fish bet and A2 could easily be out there, and you're in bad relative position. I'd just fold.

Turn is marginal. A tight reg has the low locked up often and the fish could easily have the straight. You're often drawing for half the pot. I'd probably fold again even though our now we have the pure nut draw for the high.

River is standard.