I think with this hand i have to always call 4bet IP even against aces.
need 33% with top kicker and 2 low card with Ace. I can flop well and stackoff on most flops.

On the flop is really disgusting spot
If i put him on AA and play against tight pre flop player i really cant call i guess.
Backdoors is probably not enough...

Wp

i'm curious -- is this the final table?


I question why Hero 3-betting preflop is better than hero flatting the pfr.

does Hero really want a HU pot vs. the big stack?
does hero really want to reduce the SPR when he has position, when flatting and seeing the flop HU is still a SPR less than 9?

Given other stacks at table maybe just fold to the 250k bet, even flatting the first time is reasonable.

3-betting with the intention to fold to a 4-bet is bad. Not 3-betting I can live with.

I'd be curious to hear more. I had assumed that as the #2 stack with 3 much shorter stacks present that if not directly handcuffed, should probably at least not be too worried about being exploited. It's not as if it's a good spot to 3! Light the first time around.

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If table is agro i play everything by calling pre.

It was very far from final table and even from ITM.

I just like to 3bet this hand to build big pot IP to increase my advantage over my opponent. They are usually open too wide and call3bet too wide.
In large pot weaker random player will have a problem to leave from weaker part of his range and they are often stackoff incorrect so. If you have good hand you want to bulid massive pot to take all chips from other players.

I think hands like AT32ds is much better to call pre and join to mutliway pots , because with such hands like this is easy to quarter whole table and win massive pots.

by the way i'm bad player. I have a lot of problems to play effective on big blind against very agro russians

Knowing that the starting stacks are huge on Party and the fact that OP didn't mention anything about ICM, I made the bold assumption that this is relatively early in the tournament and it happened to be correct:
To the question, I don't really think AKs5s2s is a light 3-bet really, it's pushing equity vs typical opening ranges. By folding to a 4-bet I'm not worried about being exploited, but I'm uncomfortable giving away so much cEV. Hero's hand has ~40% equity vs AA.

3-betting to isolate is OK, but most 3-betting should be made OOP to reduce the effect of position (the more chips left, the bigger role position has). Note that we stacks are say 250bb deep this no longer is true 3-betting IP becomes more attractive.

i mean villain probably has AA but that's such a bad jam for him on that flop. Considering you have like zero 9s in your range what does he expect to get called by? unless he thinks ppl can't fold Ax here...which i guess is possible

Cold calling about 1/2 your stack pf is a terrible play. Or get it in or fold.

Never too late to learn, dave.

Thanks for your value added response, great job sparky

Roughly as much as yours, tbh. If you are too lazy to read the previous responses, here is some food for thought: Hero's hand has ~40% equity vs AA. This is why it must be a call vs 4-bet, not fold or shove as you suggest (assuming villain has a typical 4-betting range).

I find it interesting that everyone thinks his 4bet is always AA

I don't know if everyone thinks that, but I think it is AA at a huge (say +90%) frequency. Just my observation on how people play.

Perhaps you're right. In a 5$ mtt that may very well be correct. I do disagree with that being the correct way to play however. From villains perspective we are OOP against an aggressive player who likes to 3 bet. Many players are 3betting over 10% these days and obviously the hero is one of them. I can think of many hands that are ahead of the heroes 3 betting range even if we assume AK52 is the bottom of his range that don't generally flop well. AKKw AQQw AJJ2 for example. IMO we are much better off 4betting these hands than calling a 3bet OOP.

That might be true. However, many players are so worried about "getting it in bad" especially in a tournament that they have hard time finding 4-bets with say AJJ2. This is because of their massive post-flop advantage.

Unrelated to that: "Cold calling about 1/2 your stack pf" and getting it in on any flop equals getting it in pre-flop, assuming villain isn't folding any part of his 4-bet range on any flop (SPR 0,5) which sounds like a fair assumption to me. Could it be possible that the caller can improve on this by folding some flops, which at the same time would mean improving on GII pre-flop?

tl;dr / wtf u sayin: "Cold calling about 1/2 your stack pf is a terrible play" is a borderline ******ed statement.

hero, in this hand, as it is posted, is calling ~35% of his stack when he calls the 4-bet and he leaves about 56% of his starting stack behind. and the SPR of the flop is ~.62

172/493 = ~.35
573 - 252 = 321, 321/573= ~.56
321/516 = ~.62

so discussion about cold calling ~50% of one's stack seems odd.
if it can be explained by something particular to the term 'cold call' rather than just 'call' i'd be grateful if someone shared that explanation with me.



if we want the 172k call to be 50% of his stack with the same prior actions then his stack would need to be 344K which would make the starting effective stack like 424K

the shallower effective starting stacks would mean calling the 4bet leaves just about 41% of his starting stack behind and the SPR of the flop is .333

the smaller SPR reduces the effectiveness of improving your situation by making correct flop-folding decisions.

and of course having a smaller amount behind to shove means you need less equity vs. a calling range for the shove to be +ev. the breakeven equity becomes 40% 344/860 =.4

Oh it is odd, I didn't bother to check whether his statement holds true, but I'm not shocked it doesn't.

For me, cold calling means it when you call a 3-bet/4-bet without being the original raiser. Some players seem to use it more liberally - say whenever someone calls a 3-bet.

I was under the impression it means to call a raise having not yet VPIP'd in the hand.

Interesting, and probably a good definition. Although, say UTG limps, there is a raise and a re-raise when the action gets back to him. Now if he calls, for me that would be a "cold-call" even after he has VPIP'd in the hand. In PL/NL games it is bb-wise nearly the same thing, but of course in fixed such action probably happens all the time.

I really like the thought process here. Valuable, so thanks. +1

Idk why you would fold the flop. In theory the guy should be whacking the lot in with his whole range to try to take the pot down and you're gonna have him outkicked and in bad shape if he doesn't have aces.

I know it can happen where you flop top pair aces and the other guy has the set of aces but I'd be playing the numbers here. Chances are, guy just has an ace and that's it. If he has aces full or somehow A9 then you got a backdoor low that's probably good.

So snap him off on the flop! If he got it, he got it.

Flatting the re-raise pre seems dumb. You don't have the position post to make a donk lead much better than GII and you have a super low SPR. I just don't see past GII pre or fold based on reads. As played, never folding flop.