Villain is a reasonable reg, playing 29/8.

PokerStars, $2/4 Pot limit Omaha Hi Pot Limit Cash Games, 5 Players
Hand Converter by Pokerhand.org

Board:
CO: $270.40
Button: $69.65
SB: $412.70
BB: $265.05
UTG: $1,060.75

Dealt to UTG A A A 2

Pre-flop:
UTG raises to $12, (2 folds), SB calls $10, (1 folds)

Flop: ($28) 3 4 3 (2 Players)
SB checks, UTG bets $21, SB raises to $89.60, UTG calls $68.60

Turn: ($207.20) K (2 Players)
SB bets $205.20, UTG???

I fold.

a 3 is a pretty big part of his range, i think u gotta fold this

i only play up to 1/2 but i fold here.
plus i wouldnt even think much about it.
a 3 is to much in his range here.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: 343

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
AdAcAs2c	47.05%	151,565	164,851	483	350,744	6,396
3***	52.95%	186,893	434,666	483	24,804	6,396

flop peel is iffy to begin with, but ok, i'll roll with it.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: 343K

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
AdAcAs2c	30.02%	90,208	95,730	278	220,914	2,353
3***	69.98%	329,410	503,992	278	17,931	2,353

not folding now is really dumb.

fold turn

sweet everyone folds here too. keep a seat open for me at 2/4!

thats y i hate betting this flop like i love the flop if its 934 but 334 is bad because u get check raised almsot everytime he has a 3 and unless you are willing to get it in on the flop and hope he doesnt have 34 its kinda ****** spot. like when u see this flop you want to get everything in but u wish you checked when u get checkraised. as played easy fold on the turn. i tihnk a much better play than calling the flop and folding the turn is to get it in on the flop. b/c what do u do if a big club hits the turn and he pots? basically you are only calling the flop to hit a low or a club and hope that he doesnt bet big.

Well played by SB.

Hero is getting unfavorable odds to call. You hate to give up a straight flush wheel draw, but I think you have to fold.

Buzz

Against really loose/agg players I'm getting it in on the flop hoping to be up against a bare 3 or A3.

Against a 28/9 solid player from the SB with 100BB there's just too much chance he's playing a coordinated 3 hand (i.e. x234/a34x) which makes our push a much bigger dog.

You have to fold the turn.

Check back flop. I would fold turn.

But I don't know why everyone is saying A3** is a huge part of his range here. Seems like the smallest part of his range considering we have three aces.

Just calling flop check raise and then doing anything but folding on a turn blank doesn't seem to make sense in this instance.

I check the flop since getting check raised by a 3 kills our hand and happens often
+ seeing a low card on the turn will give us a likely (nearly)freeroll if villain does have trips.

As played its an easy turn fold imo (some kind of crappy wrap draw just does not seem likely).

Bob

not sure if you were talking about my post but just to clarify i meant a '3,' not A3.

looking over this hand again i think the most +EV flop line is shoving >> calling > folding

+1

i was surprised nobody said raise it.

idk if it is the right attitude, but i tend to think "well, he's got a 3, lets gamble" with a flop this good

Ok here is my crazy idea just to get discusion going!
If all of you are so confident he has a 3xxx hand and we are 47/53 dog to that hand why not just call flop bet and turn bet and fold river if we do not improve instead of shoving the flop that way we invest 300$ to his 400$( assuming he is potting every street) when we lose saving us 100$ if we shove flop and brick both turn and river!

If there is any chance that specific villain takes this line without having a 3 or 44 in his hand I agree. While the majority of the time villain has this I don't think he always has it. So far in the thread we seem to be assuming villain always has a 3 rather than usually has a 3.

Villains can take off here with some other hands than this for various reasons, maybe in their mind they:

put you on AAxx and want to put you to the test
think you are representing a 3 and don't have one
think you are making a light c-bet
think if you don't have a 3 you will fold
are balancing there range so you pay them off in future when they do have 3 or 44

On these occasions when he doesn't have a 3 or 44 we'll be a long way ahead. Taking wackjobs equity calculation surely this would give us the extra equity we need to shove, even though I think we need more than a 3% equity swing as a competent reg will probably have a co-ordinated 3 against which we will have less equity. I also think in the long run if we back off every time a villain shows aggression on a paired board they will pick up on this and start to take advantage of us. This seems as good a time as any to let him know this won't happen to us because we are ahead of all bluffs and can get lucky if behind.

If we were much deeper I'd start to change my thinking to calling and looking to freeroll (because they'll most likely repop when ahed and fold when behind), likewise because our equity is less than 47.05% against co-ordinated 3's and 44 if villain won't take this line without a 3 or 44 (some won't) I'd again lean towards calling and trying to freeroll, and folding unfavourable turns. Against someone who'm I know to bluff then turn barrel these boards I'd call and raise any turn but a 2 with these stacks.


I'm certainly not so confident he has a three that I can ever fold that last $100 once I've put the other $300 in. It's just too weak I feel and will make life very difficult in the future when opponents figure out we'll do this.

If you in fact think that he does not have a 3 wouldn't calling be infinitely better than shoving.

Yes it would. I've gone wrong in my thinking here so thanks for pointing that out. The mistake I've made is to think that because on average we should be ahead we should shove this flop. I can prove myself wrong by imagining we can see opponents cards and make perfect decisions. If villain is ahead with a 3 we would call (or even fold sometimes) as we are behind and have very little chance of folding out his likely co-ordinated 3's. Those times he is behind we would call as he is so far behind and we don't want to risk losing him and want him to keep the initiative. I guess aggregating mostly calls with the odd fold and making a shove is 2+2=5. So I guess I should call the flop not shove if I bet behind. Maybe the same logic could be applied to checking behind on the flop instead of betting? I'm not sure, I'll have to come back to it, poor brain is tired and frazzled.

The advantage of shoving the flop is that we don't have to worry about the difficult turn but making incorrect decisions now to avoid possibly making mistakes in the future does not seem wise. On the turn as played, fold as he probably doesn't barrell the turn often enough without the 3 to make up for us only having 30% or less equity when he does have it.

I am getting it in on the flop... If not properly rolled prob. just C-C, to keep the pot as small as possible.

how important is pot control in general?
is it a leak with strong 2 way draw hands?
is it made up for by looking weak and inducing aggros to bluff?
what were your notes/thinking of this opponents play?
surely not playing the same hand the same way all the time is important...
is just calling the flop and turn ridic??
-folding river if no low comes... have to call imo if it does, its a very unlikely 1/4ing
-what to do if the flush comes with seemingly harmless middle type card 7,8,9

if there is $28 in the pot on the flop and u check behind then what is ev/correct play if opponent bets $28 on turn? seems a bit ridic checking behind 5 handed but id like to see a free turn and relatively "cheap" river with this hand... i mean if i brick turn is calling $28 on turn ok or spewy?

i almost exclusively play tourneys or full ring so am inclined to check behind in a cash game as a result of that. but when 5 handed in a tourney with these stack sizes i am putting pressure on opponent and more inclined to play as hero did above with the exception of tank swearing calling before going all the way with this hand on the flop.

i know this instance is a 5 handed cash game but would my play 5 handed in tourney be reasonable given stack sizes.

I fold given HH says it's PLO high.

Its not. Built in converter has been on the skew for a while so I did it somewhere else. Its PLO8.

jam flop