Poker Stars $1/$2 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 5 players
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Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is SB with T A 4 J
3 folds, Hero raises, BB calls

Flop: (4 SB) K 2 6 (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls

Should I be calling this raise really only hoping for the low and a possible backdoor hi?

This question deserves it's own thread. Or you could post questions like this in the monthly catch all thread. It doesn't really belong in the newb's questions thread. I'll move it for you and start a new thread for you. Posters will probably have different opinions about how to handle it. Different opinions are welcome on this forum. It's up to the reader to decide who is correct.

Buzz

Call one time getting 7:1. Villian isn't going to show up with A3K* in the blind very often. After you call, going to the turn, there will be 4 big bets in the pot. What's good about your hand is that it can swing both ways against pretty much a random hand in the blind. It sucks being OOP against an aggressor while holding a marginal hand. But as I see it, there aren't many (if any) turn cards that put you to a tough decision with reverse implied odds hanging over your hand. paired board, 4 or an A, and I c/f (getting only 5:1). anything else gives you the 2nd nut low (5,7,8), the nut low (3), a gutshot (9), middle pair and a gutshot (T,J), or a wrap (Q).
This is 2/3 the deck (30 good card out of 45 unseen cards), and in my opinion, hitting any of these cards on the turn will be more than enough to go to the river.

his raise is actually more indicative of a high hand on this dry board. so you should definitely call.

people dont play hands like A369 or A239 as strongly as they should on this board headsup; some even dont raise A3K or A34 or A35. so really you've only got to contend with really really strong A3's like A3+2pair+ or more likely sets and 2 pair with no/bad low draw

You are really assigning a terrible range to your aggro online villain here. Villains will show up with a huge assortment of crap all the time. They will raise all kinds of garbage here. Bottom pair with A8 lo draw, etc. 34Q8r, 4528 are both not uncommon hands for a villain to have here and many of them who will play those hands will raise them.

OP: peel the flop for sure and reevaluate the turn. Any good turn card takes you to the river and any made 1 way hand on the turn/river will make you calling any river bet.

well i don't know about aggro since OP didn't specify. when it goes unspecified i like to average out the playing styles of everyone and that makes me arrive at a pretty passive player who doesn't put much action in beyond check/calls with weak hands especially OOP.

if OP can confirm your aggro villain suspicion then i'd be inclined to agree with you.

OK.

OK.

OK.

Not exactly. I think you continue here hoping to somehow find a way to scoop. Meanwhile I think you should be trying to work out what range of hands Villain might be playing. And since that probable range depends on how Villain has played other hands, and we don't know how Villain has played other hands, it's next to impossible for any of us who are reading to pin-point Villain's range.

But that's what playing cards is: You try to get as good a feel as possible for what cards your opponent is holding. Sometimes in Omaha-8 someone plays some hands in a particular way, and knowing what that is and matching the way your opponent is playing this particular hand with the way this Villain has played various other hands often (but not always) gives you some good clues.

It doesn't really matter what the card game is, bridge, gin rummy, poker, hearts, etc. A good card player always (I think) tries to figure out what cards his opponent holds. At least that's how I play cards, Omaha-8 included. It's not generally easy, but sometimes it's easier than other times, and some opponents are easier to read than others.

This time we're wondering if Villain holds A3** and is raising with the nut low. Or possibly Villain is raising to try to scare you off if you hold A4**. Or possibly Villain flopped a set or two pairs. Or possibly Villain holds 345*. Or possibly Villain holds some other connection with the flop, or maybe simply AA**. Or possibly Villain has a very flimsy flop fit, perhaps just top pair (KXYZ) and is trying to be intimidating. More rarely Villain could have less than KXYZ and is raising simply to be intimidating. It's very hard to know here from the information given.

Hero is probably behind and by about 3:2.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: K26

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
AsJhTd4c	39.57%	78,891	114,602	13,612	270,836	39,804
KK**,K***,66**,22**,345*,K2**,K3**,AW**	60.43%	190,268	471,786	13,612	91,940	39,804

But there are already 7 small bets in the pot and it only costs Hero 1 small bet to call. If Hero goes into check/call mode and Villain bets every round, it will henceforth cost Hero a total of 5 small bets to see the showdown and there will be a total of 16 small bets in the pot at the showdown. Subtracting Hero's expected future contribution of 5 small bets, Hero will win 11 small bets if he scoops and 3 small bets if he splits evenly.

Figuring crudely, Hero expects, according to the simulation, to
scoop 114,602/600000,
get scooped 190,268/600000, and
split the rest 295130/600000.

Hero thus expects, if I estimated Villain's range correctly, to average winning about 2 small bets by simply calling this down.

• Here's the math:
  11*114,602/600000+3*295130/600000-5*190,268/600000
  =+1.99

It could be argued that I gave Villain too good a range. It could also be argued that I gave Villain too poor a range.

At any rate, I'd call the second round raise, more or less feeling stuck in the pot at this point, and more or less sorry that I had played in such a way as to get stuck in the pot.

The turn card could change everything.

Buzz

Guys I have no idea what villain's range was. i'd played under 100 hands of o8 at the lowest available real money stakes on stars when I posted this hand in the noobs thread. I think I got it though. Thanks.