Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair 1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair

05-06-2018 , 01:10 AM
Curious what options people thinking of here with a monster flop.

No reads on villain.

Villain raises 3x from EP.
Folds all around to me.
I call with A24QQ from SB


Flop 9 3 5

We're 200bb's deep. My turn to act. What lines do you guys like here?

Thanks
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-06-2018 , 03:07 AM
Can you describe the pre-flop action?
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-06-2018 , 05:07 AM
6-max? How many do you have? 2 or 3? How active/aggro is he? Does he stick to good starting hands like AA, A2? And sorry I don't know is Big O always a PL game?

Last edited by Fold&Forget; 05-06-2018 at 05:16 AM.
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-06-2018 , 02:27 PM
Hard to do anything else than c/r. Don't think you should ever be leading (with any hand on this board texture) or check-calling with a hand this strong.
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-06-2018 , 02:46 PM
- preflop was as described in OP

- PLO Big O full ring. no reads on villain.

- amok what's your plan on the turn, basically pot-ish on any card and get in if raised? wondering if people are experimenting with different bet sizing in these spots.

Last edited by kisada; 05-06-2018 at 02:58 PM.
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-06-2018 , 03:50 PM
Turn pot-getin blanks (assuming SPR roughly 3,5 depending on his cbet sizing). Pairing cards are interesting at this depth. Don't think pot-getin is horrible there, but something else can be better. Think how you'd like to play your boats. Low hearts can and probably should be trapped at high frequency.

If you really really don't want to c/r flop, then your whole continuing range should be c/c IMO. Not sure what it solves though, you are still deep OOP on the turn.
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-07-2018 , 10:34 PM
I c/r call it off. Jamming most turns if we don't get it all in on the flop. I'm assuming we have but hearts?
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-08-2018 , 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostia
I'm assuming we have but hearts?
Thread title says NFD.
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-08-2018 , 03:24 PM
Xr > bc/b3! > xc

I do think we should lead this flop at some frequency, against some opponents xr will lead to tough spots on the turn at this depth, even though we have a crushing hand we will still be behind some other strong a2/aa2 hands
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-08-2018 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
I do think we should lead this flop at some frequency
You seem to always say this in every spot. Is it due to solvers? I fail to come up with any other explanation. I think it's not only unnecessary but also highly impractical.
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-09-2018 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
You seem to always say this in every spot. Is it due to solvers? I fail to come up with any other explanation. I think it's not only unnecessary but also highly impractical.

Solvers would prove it, but that's not why I say it.

In this spot I think its because we will often prefer b/3! To xr because the turn play can be somewhat challenging when our xr is called

Also because simply calling with such a monster often is very unlikely to be the best line

Thats without getting into how often villain should checkback on this board (not a small amount imo) and our hand isn't likely to get that much action once hero becomes nutted
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote
05-09-2018 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Solvers would prove it, but that's not why I say it.
Solvers don't "prove" anything. It is not gospel, especially in 4 card games. Trying to have a say 1,8% lead range is borderline nonsensical IMO. Even if it was somehow the optimal thing to do, the difference between 0% lead must be miniscule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
In this spot I think its because we will often prefer b/3! To xr because the turn play can be somewhat challenging when our xr is called
You are correct in that when we have a strong hand, we want to get in as much money in as possible. In practice, people seem cbet way too often but definitely don't raise leads way too often. Turn play when c/r is called is not so challenging that we should start having second thoughts about c/r:ing. Sure, IP has the better of it, but that's how it is in poker 200bb deep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Also because simply calling with such a monster often is very unlikely to be the best line
Nobody actually suggested calling though. Anyway, I don't think it's that horrible not to have a raising range at all on such a wet board that hits the raiser's range hard. Especially when villain makes typical assumptions on the fact that we did not raise (i.e. barrels way too much on certain cards) OR if we have no idea how to play turns after our c/r flop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Thats without getting into how often villain should checkback on this board (not a small amount imo) and our hand isn't likely to get that much action once hero becomes nutted
Villain should cback such board probably way more often than people actually do. Here we also block a ton of strong hands, so villain's cbet should be lower than normally. The latter part of your claim I don't really agree with. If villain cbacks a decent A2 or FD he must call us down on many runouts. If villain cbacks air (=mostly AA with not much else) it doesn't matter that much what we do with our nutty hands, but of course if we were clairvoyant we'd check every street.
1/2 big O: 200bb stacks, flop wheel wrap/NFD/overpair Quote

      
m