Poker is Good for You
01-04-2012
, 08:42 PM
Quote:
I'll take a stab at it.
I believe that gambling is morally agnostic.
What you've done -- is state that only the winners benefit from endeavors such as poker.
This premise is untrue. Others involved therein, losers if you will, are participating of their own free will -- and many enjoy the challenge, the table talk, the environment, a chance to get away from the grind, etc...
In this way, they are paying for the distraction from the rat race, in the same way they would pay for entertainment from other venues, such as attending sports events ( which can be just as expensive ).
Of course, one may counter with: "What about the gambling addict whose addiction wrecks his life?!?!"
My callous answer is: Not My Problem. Nor is it gambling's problem. These individuals' problem is the tendency towards addiction. Addiction is the Addiction. If not gambling, they'll find something else: strip clubs, meth, alcohol, etc...
In the same way many successful poker players have applied intense discipline to their approach to poker, they apply the same intense discipline to other aspects of their lives.
I like your example of martial arts. The word "Arts" is the key. You get out of martial arts what you bring into it. If you are a tenacious, hard-working, humble, teachable person, you will do well. If you are a slouch, you won't. In the end, your martial arts will reflect what kind of person you are.
Poker is just another one of those things that behaves as a mirror.
----
But WRT U.S. Congress making online poker illegal for moral reasons: the only moral they are concerned about is missing out on the tax revenue from all those transactions.
I believe that gambling is morally agnostic.
What you've done -- is state that only the winners benefit from endeavors such as poker.
This premise is untrue. Others involved therein, losers if you will, are participating of their own free will -- and many enjoy the challenge, the table talk, the environment, a chance to get away from the grind, etc...
In this way, they are paying for the distraction from the rat race, in the same way they would pay for entertainment from other venues, such as attending sports events ( which can be just as expensive ).
Of course, one may counter with: "What about the gambling addict whose addiction wrecks his life?!?!"
My callous answer is: Not My Problem. Nor is it gambling's problem. These individuals' problem is the tendency towards addiction. Addiction is the Addiction. If not gambling, they'll find something else: strip clubs, meth, alcohol, etc...
In the same way many successful poker players have applied intense discipline to their approach to poker, they apply the same intense discipline to other aspects of their lives.
I like your example of martial arts. The word "Arts" is the key. You get out of martial arts what you bring into it. If you are a tenacious, hard-working, humble, teachable person, you will do well. If you are a slouch, you won't. In the end, your martial arts will reflect what kind of person you are.
Poker is just another one of those things that behaves as a mirror.
----
But WRT U.S. Congress making online poker illegal for moral reasons: the only moral they are concerned about is missing out on the tax revenue from all those transactions.
01-15-2012
, 11:28 AM
02-04-2012
, 01:42 AM
Quote:
There seem to be several negative reactions to this article throughout the forums. It may be that those who react positively are less likely to comment. So let me post my thoughts in an attempt to balance the negativity.
I thought this was an excellent article. (Typos should be fixed, though.) I actually sat down to write an article with this exact same theme two years ago. I got busy with other things and never finished it. The present article is substantially better than anything I could have come up with.
At its core, poker is just a game. It is a recreational competition between human beings. I believe such games, of all forms, are important for us as a people, because they provide an environment in which we can learn important lessons that can be carried over into the more serious competitions that constitute our life. Poker can teach us some very unique lessons that most other games cannot. For example, in poker it is possible to make all the right decisions and still have negative results in the short run. This phenomenon is so obviously ubiquitous in life in general, and yet many people are unable to deal with it properly. In life, we tend to think in terms of the following dichotomy: either a situation is governed by chance, or it is governed by our decisions. In the former case, it hardly matters what we do. In the latter case, it is important for us to make the right decisions. In poker, we see that this is a false dichotomy. In the short run, chance is the ruler. It is the dominant force in dictating the immediate outcome of things. And yet it is the farthest thing from the truth to say that our decisions hardly matter. In fact, it is just the opposite. Habitual bad decisions will ruin us. A successful poker player must constantly have his eye on the long run and be ever vigilant against bad habits whose effects may not be seen for a long time. Many people would benefit greatly from learning this lesson and carrying it over into the broader range of activities in their life.
I play poker in order to strive toward mastering the game. My goal is to constantly learn and improve. Not only do I strive toward mastering the strategy of the game, but I also strive toward mastering myself and my emotions. The lessons I learn as I travel this path are extremely important to me in other areas of my life.
I realize, however, that I am probably in the minority. Most people here, it seems, view poker and their reasons for playing poker very differently. Here are some quotes:
This poster clearly does not agree with me that the goal of playing poker is to strive toward mastering the game and mastering yourself. Perhaps for this poster, the goal of poker is simply to make a lot of money.
This poster does not agree with me, either. He believes the goal is not only to make a lot of money, but to make it from weak people in a predatory fashion.
For this poster, learning to master the game is important, but it is not the goal. It is simply a means toward the goal, which is to make a lot of money. To further the true goal (making money), we should in fact try to prevent others from learning about the game. Many people replied to this poster and disagreed, saying that Stars' school is not a bad idea. However, most of them argued that the school will not really teach people the game, but instead teach them only enough to give them a false sense of security. Therefore, the pool of losers will not be lessened, and we can continue to make a lot of money.
Sklansky and Schoonmaker have said that their article is not intended for the 2+2 readership. But I think it should be. Granted, many 2+2 members, in the course of their study, have learned the lessons described in the article. But many, perhaps most, do not focus enough on the intrinsic value of these lessons. These lessons are what poker is all about. It is not about preying on the weak, or making lots of money, unless you choose to make it about that.
From Dead Poets Society:
I thought this was an excellent article. (Typos should be fixed, though.) I actually sat down to write an article with this exact same theme two years ago. I got busy with other things and never finished it. The present article is substantially better than anything I could have come up with.
At its core, poker is just a game. It is a recreational competition between human beings. I believe such games, of all forms, are important for us as a people, because they provide an environment in which we can learn important lessons that can be carried over into the more serious competitions that constitute our life. Poker can teach us some very unique lessons that most other games cannot. For example, in poker it is possible to make all the right decisions and still have negative results in the short run. This phenomenon is so obviously ubiquitous in life in general, and yet many people are unable to deal with it properly. In life, we tend to think in terms of the following dichotomy: either a situation is governed by chance, or it is governed by our decisions. In the former case, it hardly matters what we do. In the latter case, it is important for us to make the right decisions. In poker, we see that this is a false dichotomy. In the short run, chance is the ruler. It is the dominant force in dictating the immediate outcome of things. And yet it is the farthest thing from the truth to say that our decisions hardly matter. In fact, it is just the opposite. Habitual bad decisions will ruin us. A successful poker player must constantly have his eye on the long run and be ever vigilant against bad habits whose effects may not be seen for a long time. Many people would benefit greatly from learning this lesson and carrying it over into the broader range of activities in their life.
I play poker in order to strive toward mastering the game. My goal is to constantly learn and improve. Not only do I strive toward mastering the strategy of the game, but I also strive toward mastering myself and my emotions. The lessons I learn as I travel this path are extremely important to me in other areas of my life.
I realize, however, that I am probably in the minority. Most people here, it seems, view poker and their reasons for playing poker very differently. Here are some quotes:
This poster clearly does not agree with me that the goal of playing poker is to strive toward mastering the game and mastering yourself. Perhaps for this poster, the goal of poker is simply to make a lot of money.
This poster does not agree with me, either. He believes the goal is not only to make a lot of money, but to make it from weak people in a predatory fashion.
For this poster, learning to master the game is important, but it is not the goal. It is simply a means toward the goal, which is to make a lot of money. To further the true goal (making money), we should in fact try to prevent others from learning about the game. Many people replied to this poster and disagreed, saying that Stars' school is not a bad idea. However, most of them argued that the school will not really teach people the game, but instead teach them only enough to give them a false sense of security. Therefore, the pool of losers will not be lessened, and we can continue to make a lot of money.
Sklansky and Schoonmaker have said that their article is not intended for the 2+2 readership. But I think it should be. Granted, many 2+2 members, in the course of their study, have learned the lessons described in the article. But many, perhaps most, do not focus enough on the intrinsic value of these lessons. These lessons are what poker is all about. It is not about preying on the weak, or making lots of money, unless you choose to make it about that.
From Dead Poets Society:
