So i'm on cardplayer, and the one article says Top 5 leaks in low limit hold 'em players, and the pro goes on to say that you should NEVER LIMP, ever.. just straight NEVER EVER, EVER EVER LIMP.

I highly disagree with this, and was wondering what other thought. I feel as though i have an edge on almost all player's at a 1/3 table, especially at a casino. This being said, i try to see as many flops as possible, as i feel i can outplay most player's at these low limit's, especially on a loose weak table.
Also, i feel like some hands you want to limp to allow as many caller's as possible.. When holding pocket 22's under the gun, if i'm never limping, i either have to fold them, or raise them, and wind up playing a heads up or 3 way pot with 22's.. Whereas if i limp, i can pick up 5,6 caller's possibly, or if i limp and i get raised to $15, i can still call, but if i open UTG with 22 for $11 and get repopped to $35 heads up, i have to fold.. At the casino i limp like crazy, as most pots preflop go unraised, or only raised small like to $6-$11, and i feel as though i can outplay all the opponents, i'm always trying to take a flop with any small suited connector, small pocket pairs, even one gappers and two gappers in late position like j,9 -- 10, 7 .. Beacuse when i hit my hand, these weak player's go all in with top pair or top 2 pair, it's easy to get paid off.. Does anyone agree/disagree with the NEVER limp advice from cardplayer? and why ?

Here is the article from cardplayer if you were curious:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news...old-em-lessons

you need to mix up your play and limp in at times. if you raise every pot you enter opponents are going to start 3 betting you. i think he is just trying to make the point (especially for less experienced players) limping and flat-calling is not a profitable play if you are just going to fold to a C-bet once you miss the flop. He sees players making this play all the time. the advice he is giving is that he wants you to be the raiser and have opponents check/fold the flop to you when they miss, which they will do more often than not.

He's talking about tables where everyone is competent. At low stakes, there are many bad players who make many lol mistakes. Limping pre is fine with a lot of hands but u can't limp every hand profitably. Small pairs from any position can be a limp though

I think that live vs online plays differently with respect to limping. In an online 6-max game, it is pretty much always a mistake to limp. You have no chance of stealing the blinds, and you will not make a strong enough hand often enough to make the play profitable with most of the holdings you might want to limp.

Another related reason is that players in these games will virtually automatically raise you with such a wide range of hands that you don't have the implied odds you would need to limp small pocket pairs, for example.

In live games -- and to a lesser extent full-ring online games -- limping can be a profitable strategy. This is because (in live games) the players are much weaker, and don't automatically raise limpers; so you can often actually get to a flop with your one big blind. You will also find some players who only raise with big pairs, so you can set-mine profitably. In full-ring online games it is so difficult to play even big pairs profitably from early position that limping a balanced range is arguably a decent strategy, though one difficult to employ well.

When you only limp with small pairs and drawing hands your hand becomes transparent. As far as your example with 22 utg, you are limping a speculative hand with too many players to act after you. Also one major reason limping isn't good is you aren't contending for the pot. Its a loose passive approach.

You might be reacting to the use of the word 'never'. I agree that to rule out any play in a game of poker is not optimal, but I believe the author made it pretty clear that this is a very specific article:

Student is a noob;
Author has three months to make player a pro;
Advice is specific to 2/5 games in Vegas

I don't mind this advice to force inexperienced players to play tighter, especially if you're not particularly good at hand reading or bet sizing. In addition, I think raising pre makes it way easier to play a hand, not necessarily because of the hands opponents call with (atc lol), but because even losing regs will be putting you on big cards, and this allows for a lot of c-bet wins (also discussed in the article).

I think over limping is fine in 1/2 and 2/5 games where you want see a multi-way flop with lots of implied odds, and I might even open limp with small pocket pairs and call a small raise where implied odds are present. I might also fold a lot of these limps to a big enough raise or if villains involved are short stacked.

Cliffs: No, I don't agree with never limping, but you have to consider the context of the article.

I think being close minded on any poker move is foolish.

You say this like it's a bad thing. If you are better then your opponent you should be happy if he is more willing to throw chips into the middle.

i think calling is bad but sometimes its the right thing to do. you can't always bet because you could lose money if you bet with aa. for example say you limp with aa and someone trys to punish the limpers and bets, now you can bet big to get some money, instead of everyone just folding after you bet 3x bb on the first round. overall calling is bad but sometimes necessary, betting is preferred.

Playing 22 UTG is a losing play. You cant make money with the hand in that position, PERIOD, end of story. Easy fold.

Open limping is definitely a leak. The sooner you rid yourself of it, the better. If the hand isnt good enough for a raise given your position and stack size, then fold it and wait for a better one.

Hows this for a concept, you raise AA 3.5xbb UTG, get a few caller, the button raises, and then you reraise a LOT BIGGER than if it was a limped pot.

Also, limp raising AA UTG basically turns your hand faceup to any player who isnt braindead (yes, I realize about 85% of live NL players are braindead).

Excellent advice.
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Small pairs from any position can be a limp though

if someone raises you pre then what ? you lose more over a big sample due to the amount of times you miss your set's . Either raise or fold / as stated its harder for villain to put you on a hand.

Straight from the article, and I could not agree more.

I rarely if ever limp pre online but I'll do it depending on position and the hand if playing live. Like most people have already stated, most live players have no idea what is going on and you are getting a lot of implied odds. However, this means you need to know what to do post flop. Limping with a weak kicker can start costing you alot if you do not know how to read board textures and know when your kicker is bad.

Also, a competent player will adjust to over limping and start to squeeze you at will so you will have to be aware of that and adjust accordingly.

I am not of fan of saying NEVER, considering the game is always evolving, as should your play. Certainly I think the biggest factor is how your table is playing, your image, position on certain villians, etc. Far more to it than just saying you should or shouldn't limp with any part of your range.