Unless you come into poker with a background is statistics, or you had a previous high-variance job such as day trading, it's hard for a beginner to realize how big a deal variance is in poker.

And let's face it, even pros who intellectually understand it don't practice proper bankroll managment. Everyone who plays a WPT can't have an edge against the field, but you wouldn't know that watching how many players rebuy two or more times.

I don't really believe any of these people who claim they ran up 100k in 7 months and then stopped playing, esp after looking at recent posts and considering only a couple hundred people a year clear that much to begin with.

That being said, most of what has been said is correct. Poker is hard and there;s a crap load of variance, get a job and stabilize your life. Then just play poker, when you realize that going to work is less profitable than poker, then switch.

Study!
Play in Bankroll!

and if u swing level down istant! THIS

gl

Hmmm .... I've listened to countless podcasts/interviews with pro poker players. Its interesting how many of them say something like this:

"I was so stupid when I was a younger poker player. I didn't practice any bank roll management and spent money on stupid stuff"

But then I'm left to wonder how they became pros. I think 2 important things to consider is timing and support. First: Timing. Many of these people started during college from 2003 - 2007 (one of my biggest regrets is not joining them during those years) when the online poker boom was alive and well. There were a lot of fish in the sea, and US players had access to all the online poker rooms. You could grind it out while the average skill level was low and the, let's say ... recreational players had the money to spend to have a little weekend fun. This time period benefited from a real estate bubble (I won't get into economics or politics here, don't worry) in which people had substantially more money (home equity) and consumer confidence to keep playing. It was like the "perfect storm" for smart online players to really clean up, and build bankrolls to start poker careers. And that initial "gift" might have launched their career, something that seems infinitely harder to do these days.

The second thing to consider is support. We don't know every pro or even semi-professional poker player's financial situation. Many of the young kid geniuses might not have a single bill or liability to worry about when they first get started. "Low overhead" if you will. This gives them the ability to be carefree a bit at the tables. Also, many people have support within the poker community such as investors, backers, etc.

Although the OP wasn't asking for an analysis of young pro players, I think that's what he is aspiring to be. So, I think all the advice here about BRM and tolerating variance is great. It's something I need to listen to as I go from a recreational player to more of a serious grinder. But interviews and profiles of the pros, especially young pros can be somewhat misleading. At least there were for me, at first.

I'll skip right over the fact that you're 25 and living at home. That alone should put your priorities in line regarding what to do to support yourself, i.e. poker vs 9-5 employment.

Since you do have low overhead, it could work to your advantage if you show even the basics of discipline and money management. Have a poker roll and a life roll. Focus on hours played, not just profit made or lost. When you are running good, don't just blow the extra $$ on stupid purchases or else you'll end up having to sell them in a few months when dad finally kicks you to the curb.

Realistically you need to already have a stable living situation with a backup source of income before starting your 'pro' career. Otherwise you'll play poorly under the stress of going broke over a few sessions instead of playing a solid game for the long haul.

Good luck!

I think every player has come broke at least once in their lifetime, there are few ones who don't.

That won't be the thing that will make you worse or better player at some point, it will all depend on the amount of effort you put yourself in to the game. It's obvious that if once you bink 1 big tourney and decide to go pro, you will most likely go bust.

I would bet far better in a micro stakes grinder who made 5k after 10k games, then in the guy who just bink 100k in 1 tourney...

Poker is like many things in life, but you got to understand that Poker is something unique. It can bring many joy, but can also take your soul and all the money on your pocket.

So my advice is even if you win 1M$ or more, keep studying because the next day the games will be different and you will have to adapt, and don't make poker 100% of your life, enjoy other things in life, and if you make enough money of it, invest in different things and make yourself a unique person that no one can relate to!

Good Luck!

I lost $4K+ BRs from $200 or less deposits 4x in the last 6 years due to sports gambling, my BEST friend (at the time) logging in and losing it all in BLack Jack in 30 minutes online and my own bro losing it all twice behind my back. I needed a year off from poker but I was still determined to try again and I did in September, playing nothing but 5$ MTTs at first from a $200 depo. and grinded it up to 4K again playing as high as $11 90%+ of the time occasionally taking shots at $16.50 and $22 (apex was 4.7K in December).

THIS time to avoid my past mistakes, I don't tell ANYONE my PW, I don't store it on my machine and I have a Draft Kings and FanDuel for my sports "itch". I can't find a site for US players w/ decent MTTs that don't have sports betting on them so I deposited $200 on each site to keep my poker funds separate for my "sports" BR.

I ran really bad in a couple spots in the last couple months (in the 200K GTD. On Bovada & this live event overseas at the Hard Rock in Punta Cana for a $2500 seat to the ME for 2, airfare, limo service, etc.) but I still have my BR. I qualified from .50 and $3 satellites and almost did it, but fell short twice. Bubbled the seat by 1 losing 7 straight all ins as a favorite and min cashed the 200K with coolers after coolers.

I've been working on my game for years and I never had a problem building a BR, I had a problem KEEPING it, which is more important than building it (at least for me). it's demoralizing losing something you worked so hard for over and over, knowing you have to start over again but plugging your leaks will get you back on track fast. No more stored PWs, letting friends play on my account, and most importantly, no urge to sports bet due to FD and DK.

If you know you can do it, nothing can stop you. If it does, it's only temporary. I knew I could do it again w/ time and patience and I did. No reason you can't do the same if you know your weaknesses/vice and be aware of them. Mine was degen-ing on sports more than anything. At one point I was betting $350 a game just to win it back after starting $10 a game, went from 5K to 3K in a week, 3K to 500 in the next 4 days and bust after grinding $100 to 5K in 8 months. Couldn't play poker for months.

I tried to find a site that wouldn't tempt me to sports bet but couldn't, so this plan B. I'll be damned if I gotta start all over again due to the same mistake. Luckily, I did well early on playing DFS and haven't had to redeposit for the majority of the NBA Season so I haven't bet on sports in almost a year and haven't pissed off any $ to the online bookie.

In your case, don't buy things w. your BR if "treating" yourself ends up being a nice chunk of your BR. You also do need a long break after going bust to get your mind ready for the next long grind you'll have when you're back at it again. GL and work on your game when you're not playing as others here have said. My biggest enemy is myself, I always have to be aware of me. If I'm not, I could be starting from scratch again real quick - and that's NOT happening.

I agree, staying within your BRM is the most important part of the game and I've lost so any rolls in the begining not staying within my limits.

Read a lot of Mike Caro. Check out his site. http://www.poker1.com/

Also look into other kinds of gambling like blackjack counting and video poker. Google Bob Dancer and listen to his podcast and read his column in Las Vegas paper. Gambling is gambling. He gives lots of great advice no matter what you play.

Too bad the oil boom is busting right now. But there are other jobs you can look into that can build a bankroll. Cruise ships, Trucking, etc.

well written sir,..i agree 100% with everything you said

Its all about bankroll management. If you have the skills to do it full time you have to learn these things. I know cause i have learned the hard way. But if you want this life dont go buy things once you win money keep that in your roll and try to build it up, Only take money out for things like bills.

Pretty useful thread for me as I would like to one day make this a profession. It's probably good to get reminded I need to be very conservative with my bankroll management, cause I hear about players going busto all the time.

In your case, as in many others, you live at home with a parent, so at least you can afford taking risks. Losing a couple of thousand dollars shouldn't be a huge deal then, especially if you have a part time job.

I also agree with Dilho.

I was personally broke for a long time and needed a coach to get the ball rolling again.

I wrote a guestpost about my vegas experience back in the days: http://cardplayerlifestyle.com/how-m...-got-to-vegas/

It's a fun story, but the way I was thinking back in those days is not a succesful one! Now is way different and I put in alot of hours to keep "ahead of the curve".

Good day!

Make sure you have a good coach

Don't know how good a player you are but making 3k is not a huge achievement.

Anyway, you probably have no idea about how money is made in poker, variance and bankroll management.

Also, perhaps if you are a good player this is the first time you went broke.

I bet you that Phil Ivey went broke too early in his career, probably many times, before he learnt to play better.

Lots of pros do as well. The point is what do you do afterwards. How you pull yourself together and have another shot. If you can do this you can last in the future too - and hopefully not get there again often.

Also.... Going broke on a 3k bankroll is no big deal (let alone they were all profits). Going broke on a few hundred thousand is.

Read the Degen thread under Brags, beats and variance for stories of going broke properly.

no offence

but your prob just a fish thats had some good results and got lucky.

Nowadays it is very hard to get a winning player. The edge becomes smaller....I think not everyone can handle this to get a poker pro. You must hard work. A Mixture with a job and part time poker player is the best solution. iam ask me what semipros like jaime staples do in 2 years, when the edge gets to zero point....

It all really comes down to bankroll management. I've taken shots, built some decent BR's and blew them trying to take the same "shots" that they were built with.

Turned $10 into $700 in a day. Deposited $200 2 days ago and ran it up to 3k today, went on tilt and cashed out $1100. I only play recreationally and just thinking about doing it full time stresses me out enough to know I am not cut out for it.

Bankroll management is crucial because its about playing with a wide enough margin that you can get crushed and still wake up the next day with a bankroll. I think another sound piece of advice to give is... when you are at a table, turn your brain on to remember every single thing, but when you leave the table after a loss, forget everything that happened because there's nothing that will bring that money back while you are still thinking about it.

Ok, I'm sorry, this is hard to believe. Were you playing poker or some other casino game? Did you hit a jackpot or something?

I played with bad BR management and it just happened to work out. The story is a bit like a jackpot. Sat down at a .05/.10 PLO with 10, ran it up to 60. Took the 60 and sat at two .10/.25 tables and ran them both up to around 100 each. From there sat down at four .25/.50 tables and made 3 BI's on three of them and busted one. Took the 450 and sat down at four .5/1 tables and got to 700. Was I running good?

yes

What do you think?

Tony Dunst said that He spends part of the year traveling to play, then part of the year playing mostly online. He also said that when he comes back from his travels, he always has to adjust to changes in the online game if he's been away for it for three months or more.

The moral of this story is that you can never relax in poker. The way I think about it is that if I study five hours a week reading a poker book and the other guy studies 15 hours a week, I'm the fish.

I put in 40-50 hours a week on poker, and I make sure that at least 10% of that time is study. I work on flash cards, memorizing things like what hands are in the top 20%. I read and study poker books. I watch coaching videos. When I started and had almost no money to invest in poker I put $50 on PokerStars and played $1 SNGs, I got poker books from the library and I asked a lot of questions in the 2+2 Beginners thread.

I'm not going to be the fish.

People underestimate the value of shouting and swearing in poker. Try to do this constantly while playing and if you still lose smash your laptop with a hammer and then run outside and abuse the first person you see.
This worked well for me as I am now in a place where I cant play poker so I don't lose at all. They give me drugs. Lots of drugs.

^ lol. When I'm having a bad run I just switch off the PC and go for a walk