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Old 10-29-2015, 08:36 AM   #51
Samaran11
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Re: Andrew Brokos on GTO

This was my point exactly. Proving that an action is a "mistake" means showing that it is not the optimal play according to the GTO strategy and that it is not exploiting your opponent enough to risk being exploited back. In other words, unless we know the GTO strategy, it's hard to say for sure what is a mistake and what isn't.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:38 AM   #52
David Sklansky
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Re: Andrew Brokos on GTO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shandrax View Post
For the record: When I made the statement above, I forgot about the books on NL push/fold-systems. That's also a GTO-based strategy of course.
You also forgot Zadeh.
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:28 PM   #53
LektorAJ
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Re: Andrew Brokos on GTO

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Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
You also forgot Zadeh.
Thank you, I hadn't heard of him before. I found that you (David) wrote some articles about his work for the twoplustwo strategy magazine last year are they still available online anywhere?

Some of Zadeh's more recent publications also look interesting, but in a different way

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Originally Posted by Dynasty View Post
As editor of the Magazine, I can say that's not relevant.

As long as you're writing about a topic you know and write the article well, any submission by you would be seriously considered.

I've never had an author focus of very small stakes games like NL10. So, that would be something new.
I'll see what I can come up with then

I'm not a full-time player so I can't really even give a guide on beating NL10. Most of my best received posts so far (e.g. my 1000th on Average Bubble factors and 2000th on Kelly Criterion in MTTSNGs) have been maths ones where the numbers stand objectively on their own merits, rather than ones where I have to say "In my limited experience ..." so I might try something along those lines. A lot of microstakes tournament players have trouble with dividing their bets over the remaining streets (e.g. they bet half pot on the turn then find themselves with 1.4x pot on the river and not sure what to do) so that's something I might look at.

Last edited by LektorAJ; 11-02-2015 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:41 AM   #54
Dr_Doctr
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Re: Andrew Brokos on GTO

Thread resurrection.

GTO is useful as a baseline for play against unknown opponents you assume to be good. Couple of fatal problems with focusing on GTO as far as I can see -

- if you enter a game against opponents you don't know but assume to be good, you're a lousy game selector.

- if you stay in a game where you can't find an exploitative strategy that works better than GTO because everyone's so good, you're a lousy game selector and some kind of masochist.

- if you're in a game with a bunch of weak players then you of course exploit all their mistakes, not protect against being exploitable.

- if you play low stakes and try to approximate GTO instead of exploitative plays the rake will eat you alive.
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Old 10-21-2018, 01:20 PM   #55
I_lose
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Re: Andrew Brokos on GTO

What are their mistakes if not regular deviations from optimal play? So, an understanding of what theoretically correct play is is necessary to exploit mistakes. Or am I missing something?
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:15 AM   #56
Dr_Doctr
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Re: Andrew Brokos on GTO

People knew what mistakes were and how to exploit them long before theory heavy GTO discussions came into vogue.

Studying GTO and playing around with solvers is definitely not useless, but seems to me its utility is rather marginal relative to the hype.
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:22 PM   #57
ChipsNcrisps
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Re: Andrew Brokos on GTO

Quote:
People knew what mistakes were and how to exploit them long before theory heavy GTO discussions came into vogue.
Yes but those 'mistakes' were much bigger back then. Poker is tougher and mistakes are much more difficult to spot and thus exploit well, unless you have a decent idea of what is theoretically sound...

'Im going to 4bet wider v this guy cuz he seems to 3bet a lot' does not cut it anymore
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:56 PM   #58
turtletom
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Re: Andrew Brokos on GTO

How would one go about playing this GTR strategy and does it apply to BJ?
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