ok this is a discussion on us gov run health care. i was giving my view points on my experiences with us gov run health care vs private. ive had full on socialized med. ( the military) and pseudo (va) quality of care in va is much better in my opinion because lucky for me it is across the street from duke university hosp. the drs that staff the va are from duke. they use the va as an extension of the medical school. it is kinda like the show house. my neuro is top 10 in the world his residents check me then he makes sure they did it right.
in truly socialized gov healthcare the system would run more like the military and less like the va and there would be an artificial limit on earnings for doctors .many liberals have a mindset that a certain amount is enough. i can give examples at least with real estate from again a personal experience.

150000 a year just from gov work, and they have time to do private too.

^^^^ ok now when you say this say x amount for each patient on list do they still get paid from the gov when one of these ppl comes in for standard services? say they sprain an ankle and just want some meds and dont want to go to the ortho. then they come in for strep throat later his he getting paid or is it they get to come in all they want and he gives them unlimited service for 50?
also out of this 150k who pays his nurses and staff? is it the dr like here? who pays for equipment and rent on office all that stuff? cause if he only grosses 200k he aint going to have much left over at all.

Obviously any individual's life expectancy is going to vary quite a lot.

But when millions of people's life expectancies are averaged and the US has a 5 year shorter average it is hugely significant. Do you think, for example, that if life insurance companies in the US used mortality tables from Japan that their profits wouldn't drop significantly?

yes i use the va cause im poor. i admit it. the end care ( once i get to the dr or nurse or the techs is really good because of my location) but there are tons of things not as good as private drs.
the admin ppl most are extremely rude or badly trained it is just like going to the dmv or any other gov office where you have to deal with low lev clerks that cant be fired. the paperwork and appointment system is highly inefficient. most of these ppl like most gov agencies use a cookie cutter approach to procedures and when u need something unique the computers cant handle it. tons and tons of issues.spending all day there lots of stuff. it is way war from the utopia you think it is.

if i had the money i would def get private ins. i fortunately have a fall back plan that i earned.

The European Union isn't comparable to the US. Even less so than Norway.

Would Germany qualify as multistate confederation in your view? Seems like an appropriate comparison.

Also if every state in this country had UHC, like Europe - no one would be clamoring for nation-wide UHC.

That's not what standard deviation means. Standard deviation describes how the individual data points are distributed around the mean. So, in your example, like ~68% of people will die +/- 5 years from the mean, based on a normal distribution.

It doesn't say anything about the mean being inaccurate.

Actually that was a estimate on no data. On my family's deaths of relatives over the age of 40, the s.d. was 21+ years. The true s.d. for the U.S. should be between 25 and 30 years.

Feel free to post a link to a single non-AHIP funded study that concludes that MA delivers care more cheaply than FFS Medicare.

There are no death panels. All claims are refused. No panels necessary. Every year a greater and greater percentage of Americans are 85-years or older. The U.S. budget will not be able to keep those in a zombie state alive.

I'm against health care of most basic needs being connected to insurance. Individuals should be responsible for these expenses themselves. If they choose to purchase health insurance, that's their business. Govt just shouldn't require individuals to purchase this health insurance.

Although government could offer free health fairs. It will be totally impersonal and free. Long wait lines. This is done in 3rd world countries. All doctors and health professionals will be required to serve X days per year. Wealthy doctors will be allowed to pay interns to serve in their place. Minimal staffs. Require those on the 27th week or longer of unemployment to 'volunteer' to help.

He get's the base money from the government no matter what. If for an entire year not a single patient shows up, they still get the entire money. And the service is always free for the patients, unless they need a certificate of some sort. If they want meds, they get a prescription and if they want a specialist they get an appointment. If his service sucks, people will choose another doctor and he will lose money. It's in his best interest to keep things quick and tidy.

And there is no nurse to pay, because there is no nurse work. Nurses work only in the hospital, generic doctors are there to evaluate, do a quick check-up and send you to the correct specialist or sign off for med treatment and work in in offices they rent; which also means he doesn't have to buy costly machines. The doctor pays only the rent for his place he chooses and the secretary to manage the flow of people.

If you have a sprain ankle, you go to the hospital first, where after admission and a little wait ( mostly an hour here ) you get an x-ray and then get to talk to a specialist directly, choosing the path you want to take. Everything is cost-free for the patient.

The flow is seperated between urgent or in need of quick diagnosis, which goes to the hospital and there get's color coded for gravity and wait times ( white for people that should have gone to the general doctor and are treated last, green for not urgent people that get to wait an hour, yellow for treat immediately and red for critical ), and the rest of problems goes always to the general doctor. Everything is still free of charge at the base level, you only pay 40€ when you get a non urgent specialist appointment.

And again, the 150k+ they make, is the base salary for a few hours a week. They have all the time to do more private or hospital work, which pays even better.

Actually, that is done in most if not all first world countries other than the US. Obv without all your other dumb rules.

doom are you saying you are supposed to go to the er for every little acute thing? that sounds nightmarish.
no nurse at the gp's office? who takes your vitals? checks your weight all that stuff? who gives shots? who draws blood for all your labs?

LOL.

This is just a classic post on many levels.

This is better than the 'advanced stats' post(s) above.

b

shhh...those countries don't really exist. They're just figments of everyone's imagination. Now the plethora of 1st world countries solely running private HC as the main source with low HC cost is simply overwhelming.

b

The doctor. He is free to employ someone tho, if these things are too boring for him. And blood get's only drawn in the lab itself, so the doctor doesn't do that.

Also I have no idea what "little acute" amounts to. You go to the ER because of a trauma of some sort, or because of an acute pain and you can't wait for your doctor. Hit your foot and think it's broken? ER. Have a flu? GD. Severe pain you haven't had bedore? ER. Don't want the ER? Wait for your doctor's recieving hours.

Also I don't see the nightmare, there are like 10 ERs in a 20 minute range here. Pick one and get better.

And as I said earlier, you don't even need documents to get care. When I was having some problems a few weeks ago, I was waiting on a stretcher for the specialist and I could see and hear the admission doctor from the door and a police officer brought a dude in, who apparently was an illegal immigrant who ran from the police after stealing stuff. During the chase he fell and hit his knee badly.

He was admitted and medicated ( while having the officer always with him ) for free.

so bernie why was my post so funny?

Where's here? If you go to the ER in San Francisco, you will be sent to an office for billing info. The bill will be higher than if you had gone to your own doctor.

The bill for a 911 call is $1673.

Yeah but my uncle who's been a general contractor his whole life and is now uninsurable because he shattered his ankles deserves the shaft. I mean **** him right? That's the price of capitalism.

Just because he'd be able to ply his trade without risking financial ruin from medical bills in every other developed nation, doesn't mean he gets a free ride here. American exceptionalism for the win.

And the good news is if he does get really sick or injured you're all still going to pay for his care. I guess we like our health care that way. Inefficient, arbitrary and dysfunctional.

ok please forgive my ignorance. has he tried multiple companies including high deductible/ low rated? did he have insurance when he got hurt the first time?

I have no problem with most professions making as much money as they can. The problem when it applies to doctors is that you trade that off against the general health of the public. In the US there are very rich doctors but there are also something like 35,000 people a year DYING because they lack access to care. I'd rather see the doctors' salaries capped and those 35,000 people surviving and if that's communist than so be it. You feel me?

Also, I think it's worth noting that comparing health care for active duty military with the private system is a little loltastic, seeing as how there is absolutely no way a private system could provide health care for people who are working and fighting in a damn war zone! Either the military/govt provides the care or the soldiers do without, it's as simple as that.

And really the same goes for the VA. Do you think private care agencies or insurance companies are going to be clamoring to take a bunch of military veterans onto their rolls, when those will be people with all kinds of mental and physical ailments carried over from their service?

Except often they put clauses into the contracts that allow them to deny claims when they see fit. They also put in things like yearly and lifetime caps on coverage to avoid having to, you know, actually pay off when someone needs them to.

I think he lives in France, where that bill would be $0.

I live in Canada, where it would also be $0.

Explain to me how your system is better again?

Yes they covered him for 8 hours of surgery, but after that jacked up his rates 4-5x or something. I don't know all the details of what he's tried but I know he says there's nothing he can afford.

I think he's now eligible for the high-risk pools that are mandated by Obamacare. But I think Kansas is fighting them and I'm not sure if they're functional yet.