lol how bored is this guy to still be pretending to run for president

The revolution will not be televised

I'm fully convinced the MSM will back Trump at this point if Bernie becomes the nominee, as hard as they try to prevent it from happening. It's all about $$$ for them. Disgraceful. **** em all

I had an interesting discussion with a good friend in Texas tonight about Beto. We both agree that he's got the best chance to beat Trump in the general. My friend thinks the "heart" of the Democratic party is more progressive and in line with AOC and Bernie. I told him that I don't have any issue voting for a centrist Democrat in the general, or perhaps even in the primary... But they need to be authentic and ready to fight for what they believe in. That's something that AOC and Bernie have in addition to being very progressive. Nobody doubts where their true beliefs are, or their authenticity.

I feel like Beto has declared he's running, licked his finger and stuck it up into the Iowa air to see which way the wind is blowing on different issues. I was a huge Beto fan during his campaign against Cruz, and loved his chances at the White House in 2020 if he lost. Now, I'm souring on him pretty dramatically.

I can support a candidate whose path to Medicare for All is essentially a public option that anyone can buy into. It's not my first choice, but it's close enough if I'm aligned with them on other issues. My problem with Beto is that I'm not really sure what he believes in. He supports that, but he also sort of kind of supports single payer, and it really just depends on what the people want and what Congress wants?

Sorry Beto, that's not the way to get anything done.

We don't need another "Let's all just get along, we can be bipartisan and work together! That's what America is all about!" candidate. Been there, tried that. Got our lunch handed to us.

The right is in full-fledged no holds barred, norms don't matter mode to try to get rid of the ACA, throw kids in cages, build a pointless wall, and carry water for Trump. Holding hands and singing Kumbaya is not the path forward.

That doesn't even mean I would only vote for a progressive candidate in the primary... but you can be damn sure that whoever gets my vote will be prepared to go fight tooth and nail for what they believe in, and that it will include most/all of the stuff in HR1, as well as statehood for Puerto Rico. They should also be in favor of some form of court-packing to even things up for what was done with the seat that should have gone to Garland.

Otherwise, we're playing checkers while they're playing chess.

Beto is great at selling a message to voters, but the fact that he couldn't decide where he stood on issues in the months leading up to his run is unacceptable.

Cuse, what do you think is the difference in % to beat Trump between the "best" and "worst" candidate atm? Polls seems to have it at ~7%, which isn't worth centrist policies imo.

Basically agree and I would vote for a more centrist Dem who I thought was telling the truth over someone pandering to progressives.

Every candidate should be immediately removed from consideration who won't at least commit to an assault weapons ban and harsh penalties for illegal gun ownership. Ideally they would openly question the 2nd amendment but I know that ain't happening.

look at the counties Abrams won - https://www.politico.com/election-results/2018/georgia/

then look at the counties Carter won last time around - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_G...tion#Results_3

(hint: they're the same)



she made a big push to expand medicare/medicaid into south/rural Georgia, but it did not really matter

yes, she got a larger share of the votes than Carter did

but look at the voter turnout figures - over twice as many Georgians voted in 2018 vs 2014


Kemp got 1.97 mil, Abrams 1.92

Deal 1.34, Carter 1.14


So the R's gained .63 mil, the D's gained .78


Abrams, amidst a blue wave and running as the first black female gubinatorial candidate in history, got barely more than half (55%) of the additional votes



Yes, rigging etc, but that's something we have all over the country.

The rigging in GA was unprecedented. Her opponent was literally overseeing it.

Also, passively accepting cheating is a really bad look.

my point is only that "healthcare" is not going to be a single-issue victory button

R's have no problem voting against their material interest because, and this is not limited to R's but given the material disconnect seems more poignant, politics is more about social identification than material interests

it is absurd that Kemp was not forced to resign after securing the republican nomination

I liked the beer/wine analogy someone posted earlier, and I think Bernie checks both boxes.

Them having a President in their pocket is orders of magnitude worse.

Stopped reading here, and really you should've stopped writing here too.

The path to get the things you want for your country starts with defeating Trump. Nothing else should matter at this point. And the bottom line with the Bernie/AOC wing is that, even though their platforms are very satisfying to progressives, if Trump and Co are running against that wing you're going to hear the word SOCIALIST trumpeted from every right wing media source from here to Sunday. Which for those of us who actually knows what the word means is no big deal, but for the average blue collar and rural types out there in the counties that need to flip many have been hearing for literally their entire lives that socialism is like an evil bogeyman that destroyed Venezuela, Cuba, and the USSR and they are going to be hearing 24/7 about how it will destroy America too.

Remember the four key states, WI, MI, PA, and VA, with PA being the most important. We need them all, or we're going to be seeing Trump's smug smile again on inauguration day 2021.

Good post dino, but any candidate would be labeled a communist or socialist from here to Sunday. Facts do not matter in those 4 states and the right wing knows it.

I'd love to have a beer with Beto.
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But only one

So apparently the dark secret that Beto tried to keep hidden is actually pretty ****ing rad:

Can't disagree with this post more. Defeating Trump with a milquetoast centrist dem who runs on "returning us to normal" aka Obama era is awful for a number of reasons. First of all, people are not thrilled with the status quo, which is why Bernie and Trump were so successful in 2016. A candidate who runs on a 3rd term for Obama may win vs Trump, but where does that leave us in 2022 or 2024 when "we hate Trump" is no longer driving motivation?

Second, as many have mentioned, it literally doesn't matter who the Dems run, they will be called a Socialist regardless. Obama was called a socialist and I'm sure Biden will, too. Plus, "socialism" being a bad word for blue collar workers might make sense in theory, but those same blue collar workers are the ones that rejected the neoliberal Dem candidate in 2016, so why would they suddenly be in favor of one in 2020? Plus, don't forget that Bernie WON midwestern rustbelt states like WI, MN, MI, IN.

Third, it is still very early, and lol polls, but it looks like Trump is going to be an underdog against ~any Dem, so why not run a candidate with a progressive platform instead of a "moderate" platform? This seems like a once in a lifetime chance to get a real progressive in office simply because Trump is so disliked, and imo its insane to squander it.

I'd also disagree that VA is a swing/key state, it seems pretty solidly blue now, especially with how much the "deep state" government workers in VA hate Trump.

If they're going to call you socialist no matter what (which I think they will) you need someone who is willing to embrace the label and explain why it's a good thing rather than someone who will shrink and cringe away from the label and look guilty.

“If providing every American with health care, a secure retirement, affordable housing and an economy that rewards work is “socialist,” then I am proud to embrace socialism...”

It’s not that hard.

You would think.

Exactly. Bernie will be able to stay on message, while Beto and Warren would be explaining how they're capitalists to their bones, once again letting the GOP control the conversation.

Not because of Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden, but because of a huge system of spying, the Department of Homeland Security, The Patriot Act, and people from the US going to places like Iraq to kill people who never were nor ever would be a threat to them, the US has become a much worse country. We have accepted things that would have been totally unacceptable without 20 years of this horror show. I get the feeling that even within the Democratic Party now, repealing the Muslim Bans that were so obviously horrible when Trump started them is going to be controversial. It may be a losing issue, I dunno, but it's a pretty solid moral line in the sand that any Dem candidate should make it clear that they will immediately repeal the Muslim ban.

You may be right, but I'm not in love with this map:



HRC won there by four points with a Virginia senator as her running mate. I'm not at all convinced it will stay blue. I mean, it probably will, but I just don't think you can count on it. And you better believe the Trump camp will be doing everything the can to flip a couple of key counties to try and mirror what they did with PA in 2016. They can read maps too.

Regardless, north and western PA is the most important piece of real estate in the election, and I don't like betting the future of the free world on Bernie or Biden when they're both in their late 70s. I'd rather win now and worry about 2024 when it comes.

First of all let's be clear about what you're doing here. You're demanding arbitrary goals which have little to do with the actual discussion but instead are supposed to serve as some kind of standard at which you'll maybe concede that I have a valid argument. The fact that, again, those standards have little to do with the actual discussion is pretty illuminating as to your intent in requiring them. I don't care if you want to insist you've "won" an argument. Your personal opinion doesn't mean **** to me. I'm making the case against Snowden, which posters are free to entertain or reject for whatever reasons they choose.

I don't need a citation proving Snowden carried physical intelligence into Russia which was then compromised. That's the official position of British intelligence, but that's probably not a valid source for you (because like most disingenuous trolls, no evidence will truly satisfy your demands). I don't even need proof that Snowden specifically helped the Russians advance their cyber warfare and intelligence capabilities at the expense of the US because even the information he leaked publicly to the entire world meets that standard. On top of all that, I don't need proof of anything because this isn't a trial. I was letting skydiver know that she was not alone in her thinking, and by extension that I was fine with Buttigieg's position, and here are the reasons why. Quit acting like a ****ing Trumpkin demanding ABSOLUTE PROOF of A, B, and C or else NO COLLUSION, WITCH HUNT! Absolute proof of A and B plus circumstantial evidence of C is perfectly fine for my purposes, so yeah, saying "but he's... there" is pretty damning if you agree with this forum's + the US + literally every country aligned with US interests that Russia is hostile to ours.

So no, I'm not going to respond to anyone else, cause as far as I can tell the only posts left unaddressed are zero content, an insistence with no evidence that Russia is not a threat which I've already disagreed with, and a question about where Snowden should've gone which doesn't make much sense since this whole thing spawned from Buttigieg's claim that he should've handled his concerns through established whistleblower channels. I'm not going to find posts of my taeks (whatever the **** that is) because that has literally nothing to do with anything and I'm not here to entertain you. And "script monkey" is a derogatory term for a programmer that lacks understanding of the underlying systems they program, and thus relegate themselves to mundane assignments using strictly high level languages like JavaScript. Hope that answers all of your questions, now **** off.