His numbers going up when he's putting kids in cages is the scariest thing yet imo. Maybe it is time to gtfo

Well, I'm not going to leave. I really can't for a while. I'm going to do something to help.

I can. And I am at the point now where I have to really weigh what that means. I am pretty far past the mourning of my old, perceived life here and the roots I have and now am on to consider what it means to flee and leave this mess behind. I don't know what to do, though.

The next step is really figuring out how I can be useful, what the risk is, and then make an assessment based on that. I can't even vote or sign petitions, I certainly can't afford to get arrested at a protest as a non-citizen. I'm kinda at a loss.

I have volunteered to canvass for my democrat congress candidate here in a few weeks. Four years ago I would have laughed at giving up Saturday time to volunteer for a political campaign, but here we are. It isn't time to GTFO, it is time to fight.

If Democrats can't win the house in 2018 it is definitely time to consider GTFO. If Repubs still hold congress, senate, and president in 2020, GTFO immediately.

I may have to leave. I might get tired of winning.

Are you a citizen of another country? What's your story? I think/guess you're like 40 and have some experience in a building trade? I would have guessed you had kids.

I wouldnt advise anyone to leave unless your already a dual citizen of a country you already feel comfortable in. Who knows it could come to pass usa is safer for minorities overall than for example europe. This does not constitute legal advice. I think if you're a legal citizen already or born here then the trump types dont win in the end so in the long run it will pay off. my 2 pennies.

I do think in theory it IS possible it gets so bad that we have to leave one day.It's happened before. But I personally agree that its time to fight. Trump WANTS liberals to leave

I wouldn't leave for my own safety. As a Jew maybe I'm 3rd on the list. Also I could be put in the librul camps. But it's more about being disgusted and feeling some responsibility for it.

A much nobler thing to do is stay and provide whatever sanctuary you can.

My first choice would be somewhere in Latin America if I left.

well at the moment I dont think i've done anything noble so Im not the one to talk to about that. maybe i will maybe i wont ill let you know. im not leaving and at the moment dont feel personally threatened.

Canadian. Green card. Been here over half my life. I have family here and family in Canada. Wife and two kids. She is American, naturalized. My kids 3 and 6 are American born but also have Canadian citizenship based on me. I got their certificates the month after trump won. I have trades experience and other transferable skills.

My great grandparents escaped from Europe to Canada because they were fortunate enough to be able to obtain false papers. The rest of my family on that side was wiped out. Like you said, I’m way down on the list personally. My kids are mixed race, but we are not the targets yet. But I have loved ones here that are. And even if I didn’t, I care about what is happening here. I’ve said it before and it is not profound, just true, that I used to wonder how I would act in my great grandparents time and now I am finding out. This stage? Upset and paralyzed.

TBH, I was hair on fire way back when he first won. It got so bad my friends and family were legit concerned I was being hysterical. I saw this **** coming and I see what is coming next and the bull**** cattle guards we depend on are not even going to slow it down, imo.

3 and 6 is a fine time to move, but it gets harder.

The actions of the Trump administration and the GOP don't make me want to GTFO, they piss me off and make me want to fight. The pathetic, disorganized and ineffectual opposition makes me want to GTFO.

If I ever leave it won't be because I'm scared, it will be because I've given up and decided the country isn't worth my time and effort.

I think this is accurate. Whether or not you want to leave is a different question, but America is in a ****ty place because the left is feeble and ineffectual. The Trump Admin is pretty feckless and incompetent in their fascism, and for all the fretting about the populist right, it's hardly a wholesale popular movement -- Trump throws himself victory parties when he gets past 45% approval.

But a minority of motivated hardcore right-wing activists can control most of the power because the left hasn't been able to coherently respond. America has always had these dog**** ideologues in our midst. What's failed is the political will of everyone else to confront them.

+1 to this. Your kids are still young enough that they'll barely notice for more than a few months. Once they get older it will be much more difficult. I wouldn't have much of a problem pulling up my own roots and getting the FO, but it would be almost cruel to my daughter, who is 13 and finally finally finding herself and her people.

What makes for a country that has a vibrant humanist, as opposed to Stalinist, left? People are the same everywhere, but conditions are not. Powerful governments are bad. Powerful countries are bad. Militarism and police statism not only are bad, they make for bad people. After 17 years of continuous war and 45 years of the war on drugs (and I'm sure the dominance of Wall St. financialization plays a part here too) it's impossible for the US to be good. There are many diverse and powerful interests that need there to be enemies foreign and domestic and the population psychologically generally needs to see itself and its recent history as something other than heinous and will justify whatever happens as being something in the necessary to OK to noble range.

We will not have a better more humanist society until we either spend a generation or two in peace and humility where the police/military state fades away or we are humiliated and traumatized by a huge calamity. Until then an ascendant left may not be as frightening as an ascendant right, but it's not that far behind.

Agreed that the left is feeble and ineffectual, but this country is also mired in a false dichotomy. There is no viable 3rd party.

I've never seen myself as a Republican or Democrat. It always seemed incorrect to do so when the correct position on all subjects, issues, and problems never align with either particular side down ticket.

This is how I feel. Who am I kidding? I know I'm not leaving USA, but I have moments where I feel like I'm morally obligated to leave the country and renounce citizenship. I admit I have no interest in giving that up because my life is comfortable. This is cognitive dissonance, I feel my conscience is not clear, I don't know what to do.

Iceland or Australia for me. I've done no research and my two choices might make that obvious, but my goal would be to live in a place that is not a moral disgrace. Or the least disgraceful. If no place in the world is pure, then perhaps I'll stay here and try to manipulate the most powerful place in the world into an ever so slight shift toward redemption...

There are plenty of valid concerns about living here beyond stepped up fascism. If it doesn't get worse and nothing else changes for the better right now, it is still a ****ing nightmare trajectory.

My 6-year-old has "emergency drills" in kindergarten.
The incarceration and prison complex is outrageous, the worst in the ****ing world.
The corruption is rampant.
Medical.
Safety nets are being gutted.
The environment is being pillaged.
Education is a farce.
The police are out of control.
The poorest people are going to be even more desperate as taxes are funneled away from social services and toward the wealthy.

The chickens are going to come home to roost on this ****. Take the concentration camps out of the equation, is this the place to choose to live? Flooded with guns? Parents now upset that shootings are happening in middle schools as opposed to high school? It's a banana republic.

Johnny, if I were in your situation I'd probably go. Your children are almost certain to be better off growing up in Canada.

On second thought, they're almost certain to be better off if you currently live in one of the better states. If you live in one of the ****hole states your whole family is guaranteed to be better off.

I read an article the other day about how Dutch teenagers are the happiest in the world. (I assume it's relative, there's nothing happy about being a teenager)

I keep trying to tell my gf it's selfish for us to stay and deny our future kids the chance to be Dutch instead of American but she's not hearing it, too attached to being near family.

Being near family is not nothing. I prefer the Bay Area, and lived there for about 12 years, but don't regret moving back to SoCal to be close to all the grandparents amd some other relatives. Well, maybe a little because I'd probably have a lot of money instead of some debt if I stayed up there.

Aren't you and your gf scared to bring kids into such a crazy world?

She definitely isn't so I think I don't have much of a choice

I think I'd feel selfish to leave instead of staying and fighting. People fought so I could have a good life, so I should fight for all the people locked away in prisons or with lead in their tap water.