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Old 01-31-2018, 04:12 AM   #1
goofball
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When is it time to GTFO?

We've all seen holocaust movies and wondered why those people simply didn't leave. Obviously it's not that simple, leaving your home forever isn't easy, and who can judge any of those who didn't leave.

Also, we're obviously nowhere near hitler/holocaust territory, but that's kind of the point. Long before it's actually better to leave USA#1, we should clarify our thinking about what the "gtfo" conditions might look like. My wife and I had the first serious conversation about what that scenario might look like the other night. The theory is that humans adapt, so it's better to lay out criteria in advance. So in that vein, here are some specific criteria that might be reason to GTFO.

- Significant and baseless ignoring of midterm election results by Trump with the support of the Republican party
- Someone goes to jail for saying bad/mean things about Trump
- A journalist is actually killed by the Trump admin
- Trump succeeds in fully purging LEO agencies of non jackboots


I mean, we're getting uncomfortably close to some softer ones..
- Trump ignores laws (passed by near unanimous majorities nonetheless) with zero reprocussions
- Sham investigations into Trump's enemies
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Old 01-31-2018, 04:35 AM   #2
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Solid first post.
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Old 01-31-2018, 04:38 AM   #3
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

No contribution but I love your avatar.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:18 AM   #4
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Are you white?
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:32 AM   #5
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

I think the question depends heavily on factors like age, race, gender and religion. For example, it's hard to imagine white Christians from being restricted from traveling outside the country... thus leaving them (and I fall into that group) able to escape when it's already too late for other groups... unless they are targeted as the opposition. Which would apply to most of us here regardless of race/gender/religion.

I would ask whether or not your "softer" ones would have been listed as softer a year ago, or whether there's some bias in there because they've already happened. Trump ignoring the sanctions bill is a BIG ****ING DEAL to me.

I would add to your list:

- The press is no longer operating freely. (It's over when this happens)
- Anyone in the press is jailed.
- Sham investigations turn into sham jailings.
- There are attacks on educators/intellectuals that include jailing/silencing them.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:41 AM   #6
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

I can't leave. I am hard of hearing and I get the struggle. I would much rather help those that need the help than just leave.

I do agree we need to start thinking of a Underground Railroad.

We need to be proactive about this. And by proactive, I mean communication w/o the internet. Because that's the first thing that's gonna go.

No idea how to do that. But it's the key.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:59 AM   #7
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty Lice View Post
I can't leave. I am hard of hearing and I get the struggle. I would much rather help those that need the help than just leave.
I'm torn on this. I want to stay and help as long as possible, while also remaining aware enough of what's happening around me and what the risks are to continue to decide whether I'm of more use here or free, and to make a personal decision on what to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty Lice View Post
I do agree we need to start thinking of a Underground Railroad.

We need to be proactive about this. And by proactive, I mean communication w/o the internet. Because that's the first thing that's gonna go.

No idea how to do that. But it's the key.
Also, if it goes as badly as some of us fear, this thread would be the type of thing that could blow up in our faces.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:34 AM   #8
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

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Old 01-31-2018, 08:40 AM   #9
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

I mean, if you're an ethnic minority you should have been making plans to GTFO months ago.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:47 AM   #10
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

It's an interesting question. I always wondered that myself why so many remained in Germany after 1938. In the first few years the Nazis even encouraged the Jews to leave the country although often enough for a hefty price.

I am not 100% sure but I think after the coup in Turkey they already had prepared lists and leaving the country was pretty difficult from one day to the next. If its high time you better not try to leave by plane or any other route where you are sure that you have to show your passport or something similar.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:03 AM   #11
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Typical Democrat thinking. Instead of planning your escape you should be thinking of ways to recruit, organize, get more young people involved, take to the streets, and #RESIST like never before. In all this Trump fog I think people forget what has been accomplished over recent years...
  • Passing healthcare reform
  • Legalizing gay marriage
  • Recognizing the contributions that gays and women have to offer in the military
  • Civil Rights (long way to go OBVIOUSLY. But it's why we don't give up!)
  • Making strides at protecting our environment
  • Decriminalizing marijuana and starting efforts at justice reform
  • Electing the first African American President

I'm sure I'm missing a ton of stuff, but this is ALL Dems! The GOP has contributed zero to any of these things and fought tooth and nail against them. What Dems are terrible at is messaging and politeness to a fault when it comes to getting in the gutter and matching GOP tactics of fighting dirty. Trump got elected due to racists and people's disgust for corruption in politics. He's delivering to his racist base, but sold them an empty bag of goods at getting rid of corruption. Anyone with a working brain cell knew him to be a pathological, narcissistic, racist, conman the day he rode down that escalator and announced his candidacy.

The Democratic party is flawed to be sure. They need to hear the message of the American people and stop kowtowing to big corporations and their entitlements, lobbying, foreign wars for profit, etc., and start listening to the American people. We can do this! But if you're planning your escape, then the time to GTFO is NOW. We don't need you. You're apathy and/or unwillingness to fight is part of the problem. The rest need to start organizing, finding young progressive politicians to lead the way and crush in 2018 and then again in 2020. Don't turn tail and run away now imho.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:17 AM   #12
lastdayever
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofball View Post
We've all seen holocaust movies and wondered why those people simply didn't leave.

- Someone goes to jail for saying bad/mean things about Trump
Since you brought those two things up: People actually go to jail here in Germany for saying "bad/mean" things about the Holocaust. They don't even say it didn't happen. They just say they don't believe in homicidal gas chambers.

Other people are fined €1,2k for posting this on facebook:
"Only one thing in mind....off to Germany, where they build us homes, where we will have everything without working. Even child abuse and rape is possible for us in Germany." (talking about refugees, source(german))

Not that I would ever say such things, but is it time to GTFO because of the Merkel-regime? I mean, posting dumb **** on facebook and you go to jail (you would go, if you don't pay up)?
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:27 AM   #13
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastdayever View Post
Since you brought those two things up: People actually go to jail here in Germany for saying "bad/mean" things about the Holocaust. They don't even say it didn't happen. They just say they don't believe in homicidal gas chambers.

Other people are fined €1,2k for posting this on facebook:
"Only one thing in mind....off to Germany, where they build us homes, where we will have everything without working. Even child abuse and rape is possible for us in Germany." (talking about refugees, source(german))

Not that I would ever say such things, but is it time to GTFO because of the Merkel-regime? I mean, posting dumb **** on facebook and you go to jail (you would go, if you don't pay up)?
Wtf? By saying you dont believe in homicidal gas chambers you actually implying that you dont believe in the Holocaust. You can even visit Auschwitz or Buchenwald so there is no reason to deny it. Eichmann was on trial.

The 2nd part is called hate speech. You dont go to prison just because you say Merkel is dumb or a retard.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:38 AM   #14
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Not until it's absolutely necessary. leaving the GOP with no strong opposition in charge of the US is a terribly scary thought for massive world wide consequences. We need to stop them, not give up and let them have the most powerful country in world history.

The younger generation is on to their bull****. They lean progressive by huge numbers. Just gotta wait out until lots of the olds die off. There will still be a decent number of Republicans raised in that culture, but it'll be a small minority.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:44 AM   #15
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Already am.

Granted, I'm in the UK which isn't that much better due to the Brexit nightmare. But at least it isn't going to turn into Russia 2.0
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:37 AM   #16
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin J View Post
Typical Democrat thinking. Instead of planning your escape you should be thinking of ways to recruit, organize, get more young people involved, take to the streets, and #RESIST like never before. In all this Trump fog I think people forget what has been accomplished over recent years...
  • Passing healthcare reform
  • Legalizing gay marriage
  • Recognizing the contributions that gays and women have to offer in the military
  • Civil Rights (long way to go OBVIOUSLY. But it's why we don't give up!)
  • Making strides at protecting our environment
  • Decriminalizing marijuana and starting efforts at justice reform
  • Electing the first African American President

I'm sure I'm missing a ton of stuff, but this is ALL Dems! The GOP has contributed zero to any of these things and fought tooth and nail against them. What Dems are terrible at is messaging and politeness to a fault when it comes to getting in the gutter and matching GOP tactics of fighting dirty. Trump got elected due to racists and people's disgust for corruption in politics. He's delivering to his racist base, but sold them an empty bag of goods at getting rid of corruption. Anyone with a working brain cell knew him to be a pathological, narcissistic, racist, conman the day he rode down that escalator and announced his candidacy.

The Democratic party is flawed to be sure. They need to hear the message of the American people and stop kowtowing to big corporations and their entitlements, lobbying, foreign wars for profit, etc., and start listening to the American people. We can do this! But if you're planning your escape, then the time to GTFO is NOW. We don't need you. You're apathy and/or unwillingness to fight is part of the problem. The rest need to start organizing, finding young progressive politicians to lead the way and crush in 2018 and then again in 2020. Don't turn tail and run away now imho.
+1,000

How about instead of criteria for abdicating any responsibility for this cluster**** we list criteria for getting off our asses and fighting back? A few of us have been in the streets since day 1, but most of you are still treating this all as a spectator sport, rooting for Mueller to save us and being angry on the internet. You are just as much a part of the problem as the people who voted for Trump by passively allowing all this to happen. We outnumber them bigly, but they're getting away with all this bull**** because we won't stand up to them in significant numbers.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:55 AM   #17
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

There will be an "American Spring" during my lifetime.
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:01 AM   #18
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

https://www.amazon.com/My-German-Que.../dp/0300080700
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:20 AM   #19
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

If your chief worry is the federal government succumbing to fascism, "GTFO time" is not here, yet, and I echo the sentiments of others itt that if anything it is time to stay and stand and fight.

If you mainly worry about things like being able to afford a good education for your children, being able to afford healthcare for yourself and your family and things like that, it's long past time to GTFO because that **** isn't getting any better anytime soon and in fact will only continue to get worse as long as the GOP exists.

But tbh anywhere you'd want to go probably won't have you anyway.
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:32 AM   #20
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12 View Post
But tbh anywhere you'd want to go probably won't have you anyway.
Yeah, this is an important part people often overlook. The first step is determining if you actually can leave. Most people are going to quickly discover that in practical, real world terms, they can't.
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:42 AM   #21
Csaba
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StimAbuser View Post
The younger generation is on to their bull****. They lean progressive by huge numbers. Just gotta wait out until lots of the olds die off. There will still be a decent number of Republicans raised in that culture, but it'll be a small minority.
How condensed are these younger people in specific locations that already lean heavily towards the Democrats? More Democrats in safe Democrat areas won't make any difference. Getting more of them in Texas is the issue.
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:20 PM   #22
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
I think the question depends heavily on factors like age, race, gender and religion. For example, it's hard to imagine white Christians from being restricted from traveling outside the country... thus leaving them (and I fall into that group) able to escape when it's already too late for other groups... unless they are targeted as the opposition. Which would apply to most of us here regardless of race/gender/religion.

I would ask whether or not your "softer" ones would have been listed as softer a year ago, or whether there's some bias in there because they've already happened. Trump ignoring the sanctions bill is a BIG ****ING DEAL to me.

I would add to your list:

- The press is no longer operating freely. (It's over when this happens)
- Anyone in the press is jailed.
- Sham investigations turn into sham jailings.
- There are attacks on educators/intellectuals that include jailing/silencing them.
Press were among the people arrested at the inauguration protests and had a threat of decades in prison.
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:09 PM   #23
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin J View Post
Typical Democrat thinking. Instead of planning your escape you should be thinking of ways to recruit, organize, get more young people involved, take to the streets, and #RESIST like never before. In all this Trump fog I think people forget what has been accomplished over recent years...
  • Passing healthcare reform
  • Legalizing gay marriage
  • Recognizing the contributions that gays and women have to offer in the military
  • Civil Rights (long way to go OBVIOUSLY. But it's why we don't give up!)
  • Making strides at protecting our environment
  • Decriminalizing marijuana and starting efforts at justice reform
  • Electing the first African American President

I'm sure I'm missing a ton of stuff, but this is ALL Dems! The GOP has contributed zero to any of these things and fought tooth and nail against them. What Dems are terrible at is messaging and politeness to a fault when it comes to getting in the gutter and matching GOP tactics of fighting dirty. Trump got elected due to racists and people's disgust for corruption in politics. He's delivering to his racist base, but sold them an empty bag of goods at getting rid of corruption. Anyone with a working brain cell knew him to be a pathological, narcissistic, racist, conman the day he rode down that escalator and announced his candidacy.

The Democratic party is flawed to be sure. They need to hear the message of the American people and stop kowtowing to big corporations and their entitlements, lobbying, foreign wars for profit, etc., and start listening to the American people. We can do this! But if you're planning your escape, then the time to GTFO is NOW. We don't need you. You're apathy and/or unwillingness to fight is part of the problem. The rest need to start organizing, finding young progressive politicians to lead the way and crush in 2018 and then again in 2020. Don't turn tail and run away now imho.
Unsurprisingly, I can do both of these things. In fact I'd estimate 99% of my time spent on politics is active resistance. You're welcome to join me!

What is up with that ridiculous style of argument? You see it a lot. e.g.
Person A: guns are bad and we should control them
Person B: maybe focus on heart disease which kills way more people! ever thought of that??

Most people are capable of thinking about and acting on more than one thing in their lives. For example, yesterday I thought about a ton of work stuff unrelated to politics, hung out with my family, expressed my view that my senators should have boycotted the SOTU, made that post, etc. etc...
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:11 PM   #24
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak View Post
+1,000

How about instead of criteria for abdicating any responsibility for this cluster**** we list criteria for getting off our asses and fighting back? A few of us have been in the streets since day 1, but most of you are still treating this all as a spectator sport, rooting for Mueller to save us and being angry on the internet. You are just as much a part of the problem as the people who voted for Trump by passively allowing all this to happen. We outnumber them bigly, but they're getting away with all this bull**** because we won't stand up to them in significant numbers.
Serious question: how would you suggest your normal 9-5 office drone type guy get involved and make an impact? I'm 30, married but no kids, live in Baltimore, and feel really helpless/hopeless about everything I see happening in the news.

I recently signed up for a volunteer program mentoring a high school kid, which starts next month, but I'd like to be able to look in the mirror 30 years from now and say that I did SOMETHING while Trump was in office.
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Old 01-31-2018, 04:27 PM   #25
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Re: When is it time to GTFO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Press were among the people arrested at the inauguration protests and had a threat of decades in prison.
But they were not charged/convicted/held indefinitely right? (I know, I know.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by catfacemeowmers View Post
Serious question: how would you suggest your normal 9-5 office drone type guy get involved and make an impact? I'm 30, married but no kids, live in Baltimore, and feel really helpless/hopeless about everything I see happening in the news.

I recently signed up for a volunteer program mentoring a high school kid, which starts next month, but I'd like to be able to look in the mirror 30 years from now and say that I did SOMETHING while Trump was in office.
Did you go to the Women's March in DC this year? Also, volunteer for a campaign of some sort. Find a swing district this fall, and give some time... It shouldn't interfere with a 9-5, because I would think a lot of canvassing happens from 5-7pm and on weekends.
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