It kind of does - if the discussion is about liberals moving to third-world authoritarian hellholes, then Lapidator's anecdotes about relocating to the heartland really aren't so different

That was discussed I guess, but who does that apply to? FRGCardinal? I don't know him, but maybe he's not a liberal. I guess Guatemala is kind of authoritarian, but I don't think talking about going to live with the Maya is best described as a liberal seeking the easy life in a low-cost ex-pat enclave. Costa Rica came up, but I don't think a country without an army counts as an authoritarian hellhole. And Mexico? I guess we'll find something out soon about it.

I think zz's point is right though. The people fleeing California for Arizona are not generally the liberals. I know someone who went to New Mexico, but NM is not really a conservative state and I think it's really going to be solidly blue going forward. I guess there are a fair amount of liberal Californians who went to Austin.

How many liberals (or poker players, or conservatives or whoever) would move to a Central American or SE Asian country if it meant being naturalized in that country and giving up their US citizenship? I'm guessing that number is very, very small.

Welp...

There are apparently an unlimited number of Ma$$holes and Nutmeggers who move to TN, NC, GA and SC and can't stop crowing about it.

Basically this.

Honestly, I'm sure most liberals would feel more at home in Venezuela then Mississippi... For example.

I wonder if capitalist liberals outnumber conservatives who take advantage of social services?

Idk, a 40,000% inflation rate is a tough sell.

Mississippi doesn't seem like such a great place to live (isn't it near the bottom of every measure of quality of life in the US?), but Venezuela is legitimate failed state and one of the most dangerous countries on Earth. Jackson may suck (although the Johnny Cash song is great), but pretty sure it's still better than Caracas.

This is actually something the census bureau tracks, and in 2016 net migration from MA to those 4 states was just over 7000 people, or about 1 in every 1000 people in Massachusetts. To put that number in perspective, MA lost more than 10k people to New Hampshire alone and 8.5k to Florida. It lost more people to noted conservative utopia Washington State than any of the 4 states you named.

But sure, as you put it: unlimited!

I can now Live Free or Die just fyi.

Honestly the cost of living in Arizona is fantastic, though i suspect it will be on the rise soon if it isn’t already. Like most places, the cities are fairly liberal while the rest of the state is a deep red morass. I moved from DC but ended up here as a result of long-distance relationship; cost of living wasn’t a consideration at the time. I’ve also spent a year in Louisiana, which was way more openly racist and we would never have considered staying there long term.

All that said if we ever move again it will be out of the country or to one of the real West Coast states.

Don't get me started about NH... I wish I had a quarter for every clown I hear tell me their going to move to NH to avoid paying MA income tax...

But it's cold comfort as MA will possibly lose another congressional district in 2020.

I lived in one of those perceived third-world hellholes (China) for 3 years. Living there full-time for an extended period of time is mentally exhausting. No question I'd prefer America over China even if America gets worse. Xi Jinping is leader for life in China. That's way worse than Trump being POTUS.

The odd thing about China is that although people are objectively oppressed it's not noticeable in everyday life unless you're in a place like Tibet or Xinjiang. Since most expats will live in one of the major cities, their life will basically be a first-world life in a third-world country. Same with basically any 3rd world country an expat lives in.

Exhausting why? Language, no?

Mexico's left-wing party is absolutely crushing everything in tonight's elections!

I travelled in China for a month. Gonna guess crowds/noise/cultural factors. There's little cultural regard for things like personal space. When I caught the train there people would walk through the carriages shouting into their phones, rather than using them quietly in the corner as would be done in a Western country. Not saying this to denigrate the Chinese, every culture has norms which are considered obnoxious by other cultures. My point is that there's very little respite from the frantic pace. I hated it, it's up near the top of my list of least favourite countries I have been to. I've been to a number of poor/third world countries in Asia and only the Phillippines (Manila) was worse, but I haven't travelled in third world areas in the rest of the world, unless you count rural Montana.

I've been to China and India. India is 10,000x worse in those regards.

If you're standing in line for something in India (lol there are no lines, it's a mosh pit), you will be shoved from behind. Repeatedly. Everywhere, including the most sacred religious sites.

The only developing country I've traveled in is Mexico and people were cool. The only mental exhaustion was trying to speak Spanish.

I was completely drained in every way after 2 months in India.

It probably didn't help that I did a madcap sprint around such a huge country in such a short time.

I’ve mentioned this before but personally I find not being able to not understand what the vast majority of people are saying to be pretty great. Chris probably nails it though; Chinese culture is vastly different than American culture with regards to things like personal space and courtesy the way we understand it. Getting onto or off of an airplane in China is probably the purest example I can think of - absolute anarchy.

Yeah, I haven't been there, but I've heard this elsewhere and have little intention of ever going there, pretty sure I would hate it.

There are so many amazing things to see that it's absolutely worth tolerating the chaos and filth imo. At least half of my most memorable and rewarding travel experiences happened in India.

Having lived in Beijing for a month, I'll say the thing that most caught me off guard (besides the spitting and pantsless little kids peeing on the sidewalk) was the illiteracy on my part. For all of my listening and practicing Mandarin and reading the phrases in pinyin in the months leading up to my trip, I was utterly hopeless with reading signs, as most non-government signs are printed in characters. This can be a bit of a problem when looking for, say, a pharmacy. I pretty quickly figured out the ones for massages and liquor stores, tho...
I could definitely land a job in my field in China fairly easily, but I'd rather go to Dubai, fwiw.

Language is part of it.

The main part is always being seen as an outsider no matter how much you attempt to integrate. Even the expats I knew in China who spoke fluent Chinese could never really become part of the community. That type of isolation can be very difficult to deal with in the long run.

My experience in China is what made me empathize more with the difficulties of first generation immigrants who are having the same problems with their new home countries. It's also a large part of what makes the maltreatment and abuse of refugees and asylum seekers so infuriating. It's hard enough to familiarize yourself with a new country but when that new country has a government that hates you, encourages and takes part in overt racism, and commits human rights violations while branding you and your ilk gang members, it makes a challenging experience even more daunting.

Even as a white American in NZ, which is about as easy a transition as you can get, you're still an outsider for a long time. The cultural values, norms, small talk etc are all different and it takes time and effort to assimilate properly. Or maybe it did for me since I'm socially ******ed in many ways.

Then there's the isolation from all your friends and family, who are now very far away. All the missed weddings and funerals from back home. If you make friends with expats, then they are often leaving so long term friendships are hard.

And If you don't have native fluency in the local language, you are never going to have a real conversation with a local, and your career will likely be restricted by that.