The US is detaining refugees and asylum seekers and forcibly separating families - Page 4 - Politics and Economics

Lawyers in this thread: Considering the mental anguish and longlasting psychological damage to the kids, does an 8th Amendment challenge of this policy have any chance of success?

Nope. The standard for cruel and unusual punishment is almost nonexistent, and I'm not sure it would apply to noncitizens (it probably does). It may be possible to challenge it as noncompliant with various treaty obligations regarding refugees. The ACLU has filed some suits, but I haven't looked at the specifics.

That said, it's likely worth pleading if one is bringing a suit anyway.

Quote:

The cruel and unusual punishment clause also applies to conditions of incarceration. Prison officials may not deprive inmates of “the basic necessities of life, which include reasonably adequate food, clothing, shelter, sanitation, and necessary medical attention.” (Newman v. State of Alabama, 559 F.2d 283 (5th Cir. 1977).) Nor may they “maliciously and sadistically” use force to harm inmates. (Hudson v. McMillian, 503 U.S. 1 (1992).) https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...unishment.html

Last edited by simplicitus; 06-17-2018 at 06:41 PM.

06-17-2018 , 07:07 PM

#78

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by dth123451

And **** our worse than useless media for letting them simultaneously argue:

1. It's because Democrats

and

2. The policy isn't bad

And now added a third, it isn't the policy at all

Our worthless vichy media needs to feel pain for their handling of this. Seeking asylum is not even against the ****ing law that's the whole point of asylum!

06-17-2018 , 07:17 PM

#79

SirOsis

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 29,516

KirstJen Nielsen is lying Florida trash.

06-17-2018 , 07:21 PM

#80

ScreaminAsian

For President

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 33,333

kristy neil doesn't have the ability or the desire to assimilate to american culture and walks around with a foreign-ass name like kjerstyn njielssen

06-17-2018 , 07:48 PM

#81

Trolly McTrollson

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Border Patrol sending mixed signals these days:

06-17-2018 , 07:57 PM

#82

vaya

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Eagle

Lawyers in this thread: Considering the mental anguish and longlasting psychological damage to the kids, does an 8th Amendment challenge of this policy have any chance of success?

I believe the 8th amendment only applies in cases of criminal punishment. There's an argument under substantive due process but right wing judges are not a fan of such arguments.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substantive_due_process

06-17-2018 , 07:57 PM

#83

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

06-17-2018 , 07:58 PM

#84

simplicitus

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Quote:

"We've been here on the border for two days asking for asylum, but the U.S. government won't pay attention to us," said Victor Samuel Berduo, the family patriarch, with an expression of resigned exasperation. "They tell us to wait or go to a different bridge. But we don't know any other bridges."

Immigrant advocates say these are the latest victims of White House policies meant to discourage asylum seekers from coming to the nation's borders to ask for protection.

Up and down the southwest border, courtrooms are packed with immigrants arrested for unlawful entry. Youth shelters are filling up with immigrant children. Migrants are worried because Attorney General Jeff Sessions has sharply curtailed which cases qualify for asylum.

And now, border agents have begun turning away asylum seekers at ports of entry, telling them to come back another time. That leaves some immigrants, like the Berduos, in limbo.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/15/62031...ching-u-s-soil

At the U.S. border, asylum seekers fleeing violence are told to come back later
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.fa5f3806673a

Quote:

Trump administration officials have, in recent weeks, adopted a carrot-and-stick approach to asylum applicants. They have told those who cross the border illegally and make asylum requests that they will face criminal prosecution, but that if they go through the official border crossings, their applications will be processed. Yet in several cities along the border, asylum seekers who follow those instructions are turned away and told to return later. At some crossings, applicants camp out for days.

Ruben Garcia, one of the activists assisting Pineda, said his strategy is to help him exercise his legal rights as clearly as possible. “I wanted them to be face to face with someone who is categorically saying, ‘I am afraid and I’m asking for asylum.’ ”

Garcia is the founder and director of Annunciation House, a nonprofit organization in El Paso that has provided shelter and other services to immigrants and refugees for more than 40 years. He provided The Washington Post with an edited video showing Pineda’s encounter with customs officials.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers have been turning back asylum seekers, most from Central America, for several weeks at El Paso and other ports of entry on the Mexican border. They don’t tell the migrants they can’t apply for asylum, just that they can’t apply right now because the port of entry is at capacity.

06-17-2018 , 08:12 PM

#85

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Every ICE and CBP agent and the entire chain of command need to be in jail if/when we take over in 2020.

No passes this time like Obama gave Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the rest of them.

06-17-2018 , 08:13 PM

#86

Double Eagle

Health Care Thread Czar

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 8,323

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaya

What about cases where parents get deported (punished) and kids get left behind after separation cause shrugemoji.jpg?

06-17-2018 , 08:17 PM

#87

ecriture d'adulte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 5,913

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Eagle

What about cases where parents get deported (punished) and kids get left behind after separation cause shrugemoji.jpg?

Is that substantially different than life in jail for a parent?

06-17-2018 , 08:21 PM

#88

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

Every ICE and CBP agent and the entire chain of command need to be in jail if/when we take over in 2020.

I'd be happy letting most of them find something productive to do after closing both agencies.

06-17-2018 , 08:31 PM

#89

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

I'd be happy letting most of them find something productive to do after closing both agencies.

People who think it’s ok to do these things are mentally deranged and not fit to be a part of society.

06-17-2018 , 08:38 PM

#90

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

People who think it’s ok to do these things are mentally deranged and not fit to be a part of society.

Prolly true, but 60 million people in prison would cause some problems.

06-17-2018 , 08:55 PM

#91

uDevil

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Now I can't say he's never right.

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/stat...87787061006343

06-17-2018 , 08:56 PM

#92

Chips Ahoy

help me help you

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,869

For ICE and CBP: strip of citizenship, seize all assets, spin a wheel to find which country to deport them to (weight the countries by how many asylum seekers come from each).

Also they are members of a terrorist organization so anybody trying to help them is committing a felony.

This is appropriate.

06-17-2018 , 08:59 PM

#93

ChrisV

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I'm on holiday and too lazy to hunt for answers on Google on my phone. What is the Trump administration's rationale for doing this? I know there have been like 5 different answers including "it's the Democrats", but those parts of the admin who admit this is happening and that it's policy, why? Is there an answer?

I know Australia's asylum seeker policy has not been a thing of beauty, but this feels different in its sadism.

06-17-2018 , 09:03 PM

#94

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

To deter asylum seekers from seeking asylum here, which is illegal under international law, so they don't want to say that part out loud.

06-17-2018 , 09:04 PM

#95

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

It's to deter people from moving along "the network". Kelley was by far the most coherent back in March. https://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/06/p...der/index.html

Quote:

Washington (CNN)Secretary of Homeland Security John Kelly confirmed that the department is considering separating children from their parents at the border.

"We have tremendous experience of dealing with unaccompanied minors," he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on "The Situation Room." "We turn them over to (Health and Human Services) and they do a very, very good job of putting them in foster care or linking them up with parents or family members in the United States."

He continued: "Yes I'm considering (that), in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network. I am considering exactly that. They will be well cared for as we deal with their parents. ... It's more important to me, Wolf, to try to keep people off of this awful network."

But you know - **** the kids who are irretrievably damaged waiting for news to trickle down the network to people who haven't already started the months-long journey.

06-17-2018 , 09:08 PM

#96

Trolly McTrollson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

I'm on holiday and too lazy to hunt for answers on Google on my phone. What is the Trump administration's rationale for doing this?

There isn't any.

06-17-2018 , 09:14 PM

#97

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,681

"**** 'em. They're lesser than us" is the rationale in their heads.

06-17-2018 , 09:19 PM

#98

dth123451

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The real reasons are :

1. Their base ****ing LOVES it

2. Further normalization of bat**** crazy totalitarian ****

06-17-2018 , 09:30 PM

#99

Double Eagle

Health Care Thread Czar

Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 8,323

I mean this policy ticks all of the boxes for Santa Monica Goebels and crew:

1) Performative Cruelty - check
2) Triggering the Libs - check
3) Hostages to be Traded for Wall Funding - check

**** every last one of these monsters.