To me the most interesting thing in Elizabeth’s Warren’s post was that everyone in detention was from Guatemala, El Salvador or Honduras. If people were coming largely just for economic opportunity, you would think there would be many more from Nicaragua - the poorest country in Central America. Also from Mexico - which has massive problems.

To me it bolsters their claims – that they’re only coming because they are literally in fear of their lives from local gang activity. Those three countries are the only ones were that is a massive problem, which again the US helped create.

Mexico has the cartel problems. But they seem to be only fighting each other for the rights to sell drugs to US. In Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras - the gangs are extorting local business people for protection money, and actively recruiting young boys to join their gangs or die.

Everyone should read this to understand how serious the problem is down here. https://newrepublic.com/article/1132...-dangerous-job

That's probably true, but I don't doubt that many are coming for work, or at least that's a factor. They need to leave, but why not go to a different area of their country or to Mexico? Because there's huge demand for them here.

Either way bienvenidos.

I wonder if a big chunk of it is "the network" seducing them to come to the US? Obama seemed concerned about that. And Trump seems determined to kill the network by torturing children.

I could see local gang members collaborating with coyotes to scare people into paying $6k to make the journey.

All I know is that if it was purely about economic opportunity Nicaraguans would be a big part of the mix. Those 3 countries have the big gang problems (cartels in Mexico are not extorting locals afaik).

I dropped a $5 at the El Salvador/Honduras border, which is like $50 to the average person here. Some dude came running after me to give it back. These people are honest to a fault. A total stranger will look you in the eye, say they're going to do something and you KNOW they're not lying. I've stopped locking the door to my room in a lot of the places I've stayed and I don't even worry about it anymore. (not open to the street, but when it's internal)

I spent more than a week in Nicaragua in places that were basically completely lawless due to the protests. If someone wanted to mess with me there's literally no way police could have helped. It was pretty clear I had things worth stealing. And also very unlikely I wasn't armed. I'm sure I wouldn't feel as safe in the same situation in the US.

Yes I'm generalizing, but it really is a simple, family-oriented, honest culture. Reminds me of midwesterners before most of them became poisoned by toxic hate.

I would bet everything I have that 95%+ of the people making the trek to the US from these countries are seriously desperate and feel like it's their only option to save theirs or their childrens' lives.

Read that article I posted. 900 bus drivers dead in less than a decade in a city of 3 million. Imagine.

I saw a well-dressed guy in his 40s strapping an Uzi in El Salvador - he seemed to be looking for a car on the road (not me thankfully). I'm guessing he was a local business owner being extorted by gangs, and taking matters into his own hands. But who knows.

This pope is the typical conservative who fools the left by talking a good game. He's there to get the house in order internally. He hasn't changed a damn thing.

Well at least he's better than the Hitler Youth pedo-enabler guy who came before him.

Suzzer,

Yeah, it's in the homicide stats. Nicaragua has a relatively low rate while Honduras and El Salvador are sky high - Guatemala is pretty high. Considering what you saw on your trip through it must be fairly localized.

I know the drug trade is a main culprit, but I wouldn't ignore war. Civil war in El Salvador, for example, was 1979-1992. That leaves a lot of emotionally scarred people, orphans, and weapons. War in Nicaragua killed about 30000 people while during the same time war in Guatemala killed 200000 people.

So ICE are actual, literal Nazis.

There are hella protests all over the country today. Should be easy to find one if you want to do more than be angry at home.

Not looking it up, but apparently in whatever this was there was also some stat expressed something like "approx 13 out of every 88 of these......"

See but I'm beginning to think it is. When one political side is literal Nazis, then yeah it is about Nazis vs Non-Nazis.

Every time someone cries, "This isn't about Republican or Democrat," the Republicans just roll their eyes and keep doing horrible ****.

Yeah it says "fewer than 13 out of 88 people passing the credible fear interview...".

Chris Hayes (an anti-Trump liberal, if anyone doesn't know) posted that this is because 88% of people pass the interview, which makes a lot of sense. I'm normally resistant to this sort of conspiratarding but the 14-word headline "We must secure..." in juxtaposition with a gratuitous reference to 88 is one hell of a coincidence if that's what it really is.

Update from the country club: kids were in cages under Obama too. Also we are being nice, the cages are better than the living conditions where they came from.

Even if we take this 100% at face value, why does this matter with regard to the policy right here, right now?

**** if I know. Old white dude ranting in the coffee zone was enraged at the cost of caging (he claimed $75k per person annually), guess he prefers they just be shot or something?

As always these people have no solution, they're just POS racists.

Obama did it, Democrats are getting upset now that Trump is doing it, therefor Democrats are hypocrites and we can safely ignore whatever is said.


It's not true though. Immigration advocates were up in arms when Obama put kids in cages. Republicans were even upset! Cruz went to a facility and called it horrible. Of course for Cruz it was Obama's feckless OPEN BORDERS POLICY that tricked the poor kids into fleeing their homelands but still.

https://www.economist.com/the-world-...rillion-richer

Open borders would double global gdp.

I mean I agree with you but that was not her point in this instance imo. I get where she is going because to me this is the clearest line there has ever been. I have dumped people irl because of politics already, and reduced my exposure to some, but this is one where there is no escape from it. If you are too ****ing stupid to understand the tax cut was a sham, well I respect you less. If you think that a Muslim ban makes sense to save you from terrorist attacks then you a a drooling moron at best and likely actively racist. If you can read about kids being taken from their parents in this way and find your way to excuse it with whataboutism or blaming the parents or any other bull**** talking point from your team because politics is that important to you, you will go along with literally anything including death camps. There is no other test needed.

yep. pope still giving cover for pedo bishops in chile, and refused to say anything about state-sponsored muslim genocide when aung san suu kyi had him come speak in myanmar. he's a ****ing scumbag

I'm going with my gf, my first time ever doing something like this

Yup. Going to the "Families Belong Together" March today downtown. Everyone should go. It's really the least we can all do, and events like this can help you get connected to a bigger network of actions if you aren't already. There should hopefully be a booth to sign up with the local DSA chapter at as many events as possible today--we have one here in Honolulu.

Yep. The Wookie family will be at the one in San Jose, although not our first. We also did the March for Science.

Taking my wife and kids.

We Must Secure The Border And Build The Wall To Make America Safe Again https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/02/15/...ica-safe-again

"We Must Secure The Border And Build The Wall To Make America Safe Again"

i mean wtf. i'm not surprised because you'd basically have to be a nazi to do that job, and the FBI was trying to warn people as early as the 90s about an uptick of white supremacists joining law enforcement, but jesus ****ing christ. this is totally not a coincidence, and basically amounts to official state endorsement of white supremacy. you know, the part that used to be taboo for them to say out loud.

i would be going out, but i've got to grind all day

hoping i can maybe squeak in for a couple hours this afternoon, if it's still going on. i'll be with you all in spirit regardless.

update: looks like i'm actually going to be able to make it. my wife has to go to a work-related social function that i was going to attend with her, but she wants me to go and represent us at the rally instead of tagging along with her.

if anybody is going to the 5pm rally/march down at city hall in dallas and wants to meet up, PM me