How do other first world countries pay their doctors for Saturday's? Australia, Canada Germany etc ?

As dereds says, they do work weekends etc, but the additional pay that they get brings their income up to an acceptable level. Hunt is effectively cutting their pay.

I think that there is also an issue about excessive hours and Hunt's use of bogus statistics.

Are they not getting an 11% pay rise to compensate?

The NHS isn't a "company", it's a government organisation, and they pay overtime as part of a package of benefits (flexi time, longer holidays, shorter weeks) that help compensate for lower salaries.

I also work for a government organisation and am paid a small lump sum inconvenience allowance plus double time for Saturdays (eg today) and Sundays, or plus time and a half for weekday evenings.

It is an overall pay cut.

To a degree both are.

Hunt is more right, but his methods are dumb short of him being absolutely forced into this (its not clear to me there were no other options on the table but the broad terms of the contract had to be agreed to).

For some. For the average doctor it isn't.

The sovereign authority is the Crown-in-Parliament. However, it is required to take its executive remit, every few years, from the voting public.

Source?

and as Hunt is a devious liar don't bother if your source is the Dept of Health

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34383677

I think it ultimately comes down to junior doctors not wanting to work more weekends, which I think is this day and age is just kinda tough.

sure, but my point is that the remit is essentially a charade when the executive branch ignore it repeatedly and impose policies outwith it.

I dunno, they get paid f-all for the hours, stress, and relative qualifications compared to the private sector and they've just been absolutely slayed by Jeremy Hunt for months.

There's so much mis-information going around, I think it fundamentally comes down to what is each side trying to achieve.

Hunt is forcing a "7-day NHS" which is meaningless given that the medicine happening in week v weekend is significantly different. So, he's essentially pushing for a worthless service. If you go in in the weekend, your likely to be in much worse health- so death is more likely.

The doctors want to be treated with respect and paid comparatively well. They aren't.

Given how there's a recruitment crisis in medicine globally (so doctors will bugger off to Australia/NZ,) they don't get paid as much as their peers (they will see university/school friends of comparative qualification/time earning much more,) and they pretty much run the NHS, it seems a stupid as hell thing to try and do.

That's the point. If you work 9-5 five days a week the NHS should provide non emergency services the two days most people have spare. Its completely stupid to have doctors on the same hours as everyone else.

Also the doctors are probably over paid. Certainly they are not hugely under paid as some claim. And most do better out of this deal than they did before. Its a pay rise for the majority.

basic pay scale for doctors

So 1 year in: £22,636 (£1,539/month after tax)
2-specialist registrar (normally 1 year): £28,076 (£1,848)
specialist registrar: £30,002 (£1,957)

That reference is the minimum banding.

Given it costs on average £17,114 to train to become a registrar thats about £1.5k a month put aside if they want to do it in a year... (I wouldn't mind an actual doctor verifying this as i'm just using references....)

My understanding of this whole issue is that Hunt is increasing these basic pay bands by essentially 11%; and doctors are saying they actually earn alot more in extra hours etc., which is being removed...

Based on that it does seem that they are unpaid

But the issue is that people don't want this- they've tried it before and its failed... I couldn't find proof but the many many doctors ive got on facebook have said this. I've asked for some links from them.

Where are you getting that they are getting a pay rise?

Both sides of the argument disagree with each other and i can't make an educated decision on which is right. What makes you confident you can?

Let's note that doctors have seven years of post-18 study behind them, provide a vital service to humanity in general and have a job with the type of certainty which is desired by few.

....and can make £100k a year as a GP. Plus have the social status Lawyers can only dream about.

If it was such a poor gig, then it wouldn't be so competitive to get into.

Some will but that's just about exactly double the average rate for GP salaries and 30k above what an experienced GP can expect.

GP Salary Index UK

Competitive because high grades are required to be a doctor- getting in to medical school isn't that tough if your getting 3 A's

Fair points, but if I'm reading that correctly the upper quartile earn £77k+, so not bad.

My cousin is a GP, he got 2A's and a B, he initially wanted to be a Vet but they were more stringent and required 3A's.

I'll be damned if my pooch is being treated by a moron

More relevant that pay and entry requirements is the rate doctor leave the NHS. There's lots of worrying noise about them thinking of leaving but I'm struggling to find hard data

This from Metro (not what i'd call a reliable source)
If the noise reflects reality then it's very worrying not just in terms of waste and staffing levels but because it tells us so much about how much doctors feel patient care is being compromised - people moan about their pay all the time but when they get up and leave in large numbers it's normally because there is something is very wrong with the way the job is being done.

Lol well if they say it's been tried before with no evidence it ever has I know I'm convinced.

Its obvious that people want a health service that is available when they are not working. Its stupid propaganda to claim otherwise. At best they are maybe trying to claim that it isn't as popular in which case no kidding so much of nhs resources go to pensioners its completely unsurprising that some people don't care if they can't get non emergency services outside of the normal 9-5 Monday to Friday.

Meanwhile most people like me use the service once every few years and needs to schedule everything around stupid times like 2 in the afternoon when I need vaccinations or other such stuff want a seven day service asap.

I'm getting that they are on average getting a pay rise from all the reports that they are getting one. One was posted up the thread for eg. Its a pay rise for three quarters of junior doctors iirc.

Do junior doctors administer vaccinations now?