Weren't you saying you wanted British sovereignity? All you people have done since Brexit is whine about the courts, parliamentary process and now the House of Lords. This is what you voted to be ruled by you f***ing idiots.

Surely even you can't be tickled by the fact that the only reason the Lords still exists is because a bunch of backbench tories defied the whip and voted against reform. If you were to do a venn diagram of those MPs and those who orchestrated leaning on Cameron to get the referendum in the first place, it would basically be a circle.

On a pure troll level it's just fabulous.

But in all seriousness, the Lords isn't going to block article 50, they are completely entitled to amend it and this is a completely reasonable amendment to make.

If it was something like guarantee rights of EU citizens when EU agree reciprocal rights, that would be great. Definitely, I do think people working hard here should be welcome.


But this is explicitly putting EU nationals here ahead of UK nationals overseas which feels like treachery (and will be presented as such, cos its easy to make it look like that), and will allow the EU to use our expats as leverage and give them no reason to resolve it asap, and let them keep kicking the can down the road.

Bunch of wankers who think they are taking the high ground, but are hurting their own citizenry.

Always thought the Lords needs binning.

What could possible go wrong with only a 1 house legislature!

Moron.

I disagree, I am a UK citizen working in another EU country I do not want the status of those EU nationals working in the UK to be used as leverage in discussions about UK citizens across the EU. Also the commons can bypass the lords on this should negotiations with the EU go so badly as to adversely impact UK citizens across the EU.

As an aside whatever the outcome of the EU negotiations there is nothing preventing individual EU member states giving UK citizens right to stay in the member state.

I'm also in favour of replacing the house of lords despite favouring their decision on this.

I dont really hate this tbh, it is the right and high ground thing to do for people in the UK, it s more I think the EU will exploit this mercilessly because imo they are a bunch if solid gold ****s

It will give everone a clear view on the true quality of the EU (good or bad - I could be wrong), if it does get integrated in.

If EU try and defer any decision on this until everything is agreed (likely imo), they'll be seen as at worst malicious and at best gameplaying with people's lives. And fuel anti EU sentiment here and throughout the EU.

This is just a PC way of saying 'lazy **** go home'. What is considered hard work is entirely subjective. What about someone who comes here and 'works hard', builds a life but is made unemployed? Who are these people wanting to come here and mess about? You do know you can't just walk into the UK and start claiming benefits?

Just hate this divisive language, it's the deserving and undeserving poor once again, and no it doesn't matter where someone is born, this is anti-working class rhetoric.

At least you have a theory that is falsifiable and you get to say I told you so if in fact the EU fails to provide reciprocal safeguards to UK citizens in Europe. Given I'm in Ireland I'd expect Ireland to provide assurances with or without the EU and I find some of the posturing of the UK and EU bollocks but as it is I'll just have to wait and see.

LOL you're funny.

Don't really want to be rude but it is called for tbh.....diebitter you are a ****ing clown that doesn't know what is good for you.....you are as thick as champ.

Right wing parrot sums you up.

Considering everyone in N.I has a claim to be either Irish or British (or both if we like) I'd say there will be no change for Irish in UK and same for Ireland.

I agree. It's completely unreasonable for either the EU or the UK to use people as bargaining chips, and one of them needed to blink first.

It would have been better if the UK government had taken the initiative and guaranteed the rights of EU citizens without the Lords intervening, but either way the government will get a very clear signal on how the EU intends to proceed in these negotiations by the nature of their response.

Doesn't the entirety of politics involve using people as bargaining chips, all the time? Isn't that the point of it?

I cannot see how this is any different to any other situation. It looks like over-sensitive, over-PC, irrational, righteous indignation to me. There is no chance that the GTO solution to this mini game involves giving away that chip.

I agree that gifts can work well in human interactions, that might be a genuine upside. But that is still a type of bargaining chip, and I'm not sure this is the best gift(unilaterally removing certain import tariffs might be a better one).

Would it solve the problem if we unilaterally added a clause like 'We will guarantee up front to reciprocally honour the citizens' home nations' policy on relocation (subject to some common sense maximums to avoid it being gamed)'?

That seems perfectly ethical to me.

Exactly.

Who do you think this applies to? The people who are okay with the lords decision to allow people settled in the UK to remain or the people who are up in arms at it?

But yet you are actually okay with the decision or have you forgotten.

This is why people think your posting on this topic is all over the place.

And no not all politics is deciding who has the right to continue living where they are settled.

When the EU goes low we go high!

I prefer the lords treat EU citizens here on equal footing with uk citizens abroad rather than elevate EU citizens above UK citizens. But I'm not frothing at the motuh about it. Does that help?

The lords do not have jurisdiction over my right to reside in Ireland.

Alex also seems to be implying that the people who do not want EU residents of the UK subject to 2 years plus of uncertainty to be frothing at the mouth with overly PC overly sensitive irrational righteous indignation and you think that was a perfect summary.

Do you think that applies to me?

for the record I don't care if you do but it would help me understand where you think the bar is for overly PC overly sensitive irrational righteous indignation.

There's a touch of social justice warrior about it for sure.

i wonder though, are you in any way concerned about UK citizens overseas and their limbo?

If you are, id read you as more genuine and much less of the Alexdb description.

I'd like to see the UK government take the unilateral approach and just guarantee everyone's rights. But the EU shouldn't be let off the hook here, the 'were not going to talk about it ...' is them also using people as negotiation chips.

Given where we are now. I very much hope that it will be no 1 on the agenda from both sides as soon as Article 50 is invoked.

No, and the above is the type of sweeping generalisation that is rarely ever true. It certainly applies to much of politics, but its entirety, of course not.