The Guardian are reporting a split or two over Corbyn today.

lol at looking at exit polls after the actual outcome of an election is announced. One member one vote - everyone's vote has the same value, so why are you placing more value on people joining pre 2015? Oh yes, so you can justify a baseless assumption that hundreds of thousands of previously invisible Trotskyists joined to back Corbyn. If only the far left were this big. There are no more than 10 000 members of revolutionary parties/platforms in the UK. The people joining Labour are the same people who left during the Blair years, plus some more, especially young people, who feel inspired by Corbyn and the movement around him that they might actually be able to make a positive difference to the world.

In any case 'popular among those who hadn't voted Labour at the last election' is excellent news for Labour. Remember Labour needs to garner more votes than your failed Blairites Brown and Milliband. Those politics are over, right across Europe your advocates of neo-liberalism, Thatcher and Blair's successors are getting trashed by parties to their right and left.

Your first statement makes no sense at all. Take Iraq for instance. Unpopular with a clear majority at the time, and since has become THE biggest ever UK foreign policy disaster. This is now established FACT post Chilcot. Why would anybody endorse this, of any party? Which leads to the second point, only those serious about being in Government will distance themselves from the Blair years. Blair's support was only so high in 97 because the Tories were essentially finished as a political force. All those scandals and sleaze.

I don't know what Watson has been going on about. I do kind of agree with the doom-sayers and split-mongerers but for very different reasons. Historically this kind of alliance between right and left was possible in Labour, in particular in 1945 but the economic/social background was very different.

The final point about 'Corbynistas' not being interested in Government is ridiculous, and probably offensive - ordinary people can't have a say in their future and must leave it to their betters in Westminster - or, if you can't beat them join them. The reality is that the ONLY alternative programme for the UK is being offered by Labour. So how is that not being interested in Government ffs?

Well I don't want to state the obvious but.....exit polls take place after the vote. In this case it's trying to look in more depth at the result. So I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make.

First of all, you're creating a straw man by using the term trotkyists here, it's not something I said. Secondly, something can hardly be a 'baseless assumption' when I've provided evidence that it is indeed the new members who have won the election for Corbyn.

Can you provide the evidence for this? I wouldn't like to think it was a 'baseless assumption' you were making here...



It's amazing the way the name of the last Labour leader to win an election in 40 years, and Labour's longest serving ever PM is used as an insult for those perceived to have similar political views. Also, the neolibiralism comment reminds me on a great series of tweets I read today about 25 lessons we can learn from the greek crisis...

Exit polls are for the time after a vote while votes are being counted. They are defunct once we know the actual result, which shows that Corbyn beat Smith in every group, registered supporters, trade union affiliates and paid up members, despite I might add the attempted, well documented purge of Corbyn supporters. When people joined is irrelevant. That you are making a point of this I assume you are drawing on the baseless accusation adopted by the Labour right and mainstream media that new supporters are largely entryists/Trots/far left/extremists - this is the point right? That this magnificent display of democracy doesn't count because they're all bone headed ideologues? If this isn't your point then you don't seem to be making any point at all.

My assumption isn't baseless though - people left during the Blair years in their droves, now there is a space for them. It is a fair generalisation to make.

You misunderstand the point - the 90s was peak party time for European centre left social democracy - morphed into pro-business, deregulatory, pro-market (with a dash of neo-conservative aggressive foreign policy) - also known as neo-liberalism. I have defined neo-liberalism many times on here so your quote is rather silly - what is the context of it?
It is also not a perception of Blairism - Brown was an architect of New Labour, Owen Smith and Miliband are in this tradition - they are Blairites. If you are uncomfortable with this then you should consider your own political views and the company you sit with.
Greece is a prime example of how Tory-lite politics has failed in every conceivable way - Pasok got smashed by the radical left in elections- the lesson for Labour is not whether you can win elections on a radical left platform, but how you can maintain the initiative once in power and resist the inevitable assault from the IMF et al and of course the EU.

Oh wait, I've just re-read your post - you don't think 'blairite' is an insult because he won elections (I'd argue in fact the Tories lost them as much as Labour won them but whatever)?
Usually people don't like being labelled Blairites because they don't like being associated with a war criminal.

It's patently obvious that Corbyn is relatively unpopular with Labour members who joined and remained before the 2015 election. Every poll that's been done shows this. That said, Labour membership was only just above all time lows (and had been since 2008) before Milliband changed the rules so any idea that 'true' labour should be represented by the opinions of this historically low membership and not its recently expanded one seems a bit dodgy to me.

I'll ask again, where is the proof for all these 'baseless assumptions' (your term) that you are making? You haven't provided any from the post above where I asked. Also, if you have some in depth results from the leadership election that go beyond, or even get near to, the detail that's provided in the exit polls then you can post it here. The floor is yours...

I'm not trying to prove anything - it is you that tried to prove something about the composition of Labour pre and post Corbyn. Your assumption was baseless, my assumption was just that - a fair assumption.

If you were merely making an innocent observation then whatever, fairly pointless, but whatever.

No doubt you will now hassle me again for evidence I don't need to provide.

Okay, I'll go back to doing what others do and ignore your posts. Pretty pointless to do otherwise.

Lol I don't care what you do. You are still failing to post anything of substance.

I enjoyed your St Jezza vs the IMF thing but Husker had some stats AND a link. That's not not substance.

Odds on another Ken kung-fu history lesson soon anyone?

stats schmats. If you aren't going to offer an analysis then there is no point in having them. What is the substantive point? That members joining after Corbyn support Corbyn? That isn't substance. At best it is a thinly veiled smear against Labour members. At worst it is just nothing.

I listen to a lot of party conference stuff and there's a lot of loathsome types.

But that berk of a health secretary takes some beating for being nauseating.

Presenting post - farage truth or UKIP

New leader Diane James to stand down after 18 days

UKIP basically finished. They have achieved their whole excuse for existence and their charismatic frontman has resigned. A lot of their other policies are equally promoted by the Tories who are able to win elections.

Tory support jumped and ukips dropped after Brexit. Many of them will consider it mission accomplished and go back to the Tories now.

I wonder how much of their disillusioned working class support they will maintain now Farage has gone.

I suspect the new zealotry in the Tory party for brexit will hoover up that support.

Nothing new about it, just more in the open.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...nference-live/

I heard that Grammar schools were ukips next biggest selling point.

For added points. Guess who's the current leader

lol Theresa May rolling out a real pack of lies today.

Not convinced people up north are gonna vote Tory. They aren't completely stupid.

Haha Jeremy hunt good for nhs lolololo

UKIP now more of a danger to Labour.