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Old 02-22-2016, 10:12 PM   #2576
chezlaw
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re: UK Politics Thread

Teresa May could benefit greatly from one or both of those being damaged by this referendum campaign. Also there's always room for some unexpected people to emerge during high profile events.
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:15 PM   #2577
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re: UK Politics Thread

Good, looking forward to seeing John Redwood again. Is that utter **** Tebbit still alive?
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:59 AM   #2578
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
Colonials don't get a vote

As I suspected you limeys are stuck in the past. In America we have moved on and anyone can vote, you donít even have to be a citizen, or have residence status or allegiance to the US, or have anything more than a functioning medulla. Hell Chez, you could show up for the presidential election in America and vote, you could even claim to be thousand times smarter than the average American and get to vote a thousand times. You may be able to swing the election all by yourself. In America, we practice true voting rights and democracy unlike you island dwelling elitists.
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Old 02-23-2016, 03:36 AM   #2579
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Old 02-23-2016, 05:35 AM   #2580
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by martymc1 View Post

Unlikely I'll be voting unless the stayers get someone that doesn't have the stink of the tories talking to me.

--

How ****e is newsnight without Paxman? and this ****er wouldn't look out of place doing a refurb your house show.
Do you really need a character with charisma to make you vote a certain way? Can't you just read up on the issues and make up your own mind?

Watch one of the newsnights with James O'Brien, he's definitely got Paxo's Rottweiler type charm.
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:16 AM   #2581
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by davmcg View Post
edit perhaps I should have used the full name European Court of Justice
Oh, I see. But as the UK wouldn't be breaching EU law, having secured a change in the law, there wouldn't be any case to answer at the ECJ -- unless the court tried to argue a human-rights angle (meaning that every member state had to give the same benefits) or tried to argue that the EU can't vary its own laws and can't allow exceptions (which would make an outstanding mess of everything). Then again, with the European courts, which exist mainly to expand their own powers, you never know what stunt they'll pull next.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:03 AM   #2582
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re: UK Politics Thread

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As I suspected you limeys are stuck in the past. In America we have moved on and anyone can vote, you donít even have to be a citizen, or have residence status or allegiance to the US, or have anything more than a functioning medulla. Hell Chez, you could show up for the presidential election in America and vote, you could even claim to be thousand times smarter than the average American and get to vote a thousand times. You may be able to swing the election all by yourself. In America, we practice true voting rights and democracy unlike you island dwelling elitists.
NYC is proposing to give illegal aliens the vote for some reason, but it hasn't actually happened. Non-citizen residents can vote in local elections in a few cities, but can't vote in federal elections.

And even for US citizens, it can be complicated:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23051808
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:26 AM   #2583
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Gin 'n Tonic View Post
Well tell me this - I am currently an EU citizen. Does the UK government have the right to repudiate my citizenship without my express consent should I wish to remain an EU citizen? Could this be tested in court iyo?
Well the Scots were told to gtfo of Europe by all and sundry if they left the UK so I assume not.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:30 AM   #2584
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by 57 On Red View Post
Oh, I see. But as the UK wouldn't be breaching EU law, having secured a change in the law, there wouldn't be any case to answer at the ECJ -- unless the court tried to argue a human-rights angle (meaning that every member state had to give the same benefits) or tried to argue that the EU can't vary its own laws and can't allow exceptions (which would make an outstanding mess of everything). Then again, with the European courts, which exist mainly to expand their own powers, you never know what stunt they'll pull next.
Are you just trolling?

The original debate was the UK unilaterally deciding to stop in work benefits for EU migrants. There couldn't be a clearer breach of single market free movement principles.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:59 AM   #2585
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re: UK Politics Thread

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There couldn't be a clearer breach of single market free movement principles.
Explain to me again how some of the Schengen countries unilaterally re-introduced border controls without getting sued.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:11 AM   #2586
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re: UK Politics Thread

EU ought to let Britain go. Bunch of self-entitled privileged whiners can go unilaterally screw themselves.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:18 AM   #2587
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by jalfrezi View Post
Not what I was saying at all.

His point is that they were already taking every precaution necessary, and being well-travelled himself (he had lived in Portugal for some time) he knew that butchers in some other countries eg Spain, Portugal probably wouldn't take much notice of the legislation anyway, so the net result to his shop was a large amount of money spent on refurbishing the place to accommodate changes that were a) unnecessary and b) wouldn't be observed in many other butcher shops across Europe.
i used to teach english to a big wig in spain's equivalent of our environment and rural affairs ministry or whatever it is now. her words were somethin like "the uk hates new regulation cos they strictly implement it but we dont care about eu regs cos we do what we want anyway"

Spoiler:
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:29 AM   #2588
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Elrazor View Post
I think the argument proposed that we will have a second referendum if we vote leave, after we have re-negotiated from a position of strength is an interesting one.

Of course, the stay camp will argue there will be no second referendum, but should we vote to leave, it's unlikely they will hold this position (and neither will the EU) as both the in campaign and the EU will be negotiating from a position of absolute weakness.

There is no doubt that the UK and the EU are better off together with some kind of formal arrangement, but just as the EU has evolved from the common market, so it might have to devolve if it wants to maintain it's integrity.
but what about the currency? we need to have the same monetary policy if we are to be a real couple.. (or technically a moresome here)
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:38 AM   #2589
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
We're getting into bizarre fantasy territory but that referendum would be hopeless. No-way Scotland votes to be independent outside of the EU while the rest of the UK stays in and that would be the choice offered. In the plausible possible worlds the choice would be a very winnable EU or UK.
Aye the metro seem to have got to work already on getting letters printed by those saying they'd still not vote to leave uk in the event that england drags us out of the eu
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:51 AM   #2590
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Has anyone here been personally affected by eu regulation?

Any small business owners or grocers?

Would be interesting to hear as ive never been affected other than not having to queue for a visa when in europe.

Obviously free trade macroeconomics etc is great, but i would like to hear of some actual "ihad to sell straight bananas"
Not yet in place, but the e-cigarette industry looks like it's going to be hit very hard by the Tobacco Products Directive. Set to come in force soon, it'll give businesses time to sell off non-compliant stock, but some of the regulations are farcical.

Utterly pointless conditions include a maximum size of 10ml bottles for e-liquids, which will push up productions costs for small businesses (currently a lot of sales are on 30ml bottles). An arbitrary maximum of 20mg nicotine strength, cutting out the stronger liquids for heavier smokers making the transition. A maximum 2ml tank size (pointless and very restrictive) for atomisers. And a few lines about items being "leak free", although nobody is sure how this will be interpreted or implemented. There's also set to be mandatory testing for liquids and it looks like the costs may see smaller manufacturers crippled or bust.

It's an industry that's required regulation for a while, and what has happened is a set of rules written by people who have absolutely no understanding of the products. How things will work out is unknown but plenty of businesses and users I know are more than a little concerned.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:51 AM   #2591
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by BertieWooster View Post
In the context of the next Tory leadership election Boris doesn't even need Brexit to occur to be the front-runner. He has likely locked up enough nominations from Eurosceptic MPs to get onto the ballot, and will then go on to have the support of the (mostly OUT) Tory grassroots in the subsequent election. It's been masked somewhat by defections to UKIP and the 2015 election result, but there are large sections of the Conservative grassroots who despise Cameron. Johnson has signaled that he may be the man they can rally round.
If we stay in it feels like it will split partisan with more on the right voting out and the left voting in. So Boris could make the case he won the base even if he lost the vote.

I have no idea how the rules work, can he win with a plurality of support if evil witch May and Osborne split supporters or is it a case of second and third choices like labour uses?

I can definitely see ukip dying at the next election of Boris wins the leadership contest regardless of the referendum result. It has nothing to say any more.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:53 AM   #2592
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by 57 On Red View Post
NYC is proposing to give illegal aliens the vote for some reason, but it hasn't actually happened. Non-citizen residents can vote in local elections in a few cities, but can't vote in federal elections.

And even for US citizens, it can be complicated:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23051808
America was founded on the principle of no taxation without representation. All people who are in that area should get a vote.

(I genuinely back this for Britain too fwiw)
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:57 AM   #2593
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Bladesman87 View Post
Not yet in place, but the e-cigarette industry looks like it's going to be hit very hard by the Tobacco Products Directive. Set to come in force soon, it'll give businesses time to sell off non-compliant stock, but some of the regulations are farcical.

Utterly pointless conditions include a maximum size of 10ml bottles for e-liquids, which will push up productions costs for small businesses (currently a lot of sales are on 30ml bottles). An arbitrary maximum of 20mg nicotine strength, cutting out the stronger liquids for heavier smokers making the transition. A maximum 2ml tank size (pointless and very restrictive) for atomisers. And a few lines about items being "leak free", although nobody is sure how this will be interpreted or implemented. There's also set to be mandatory testing for liquids and it looks like the costs may see smaller manufacturers crippled or bust.

It's an industry that's required regulation for a while, and what has happened is a set of rules written by people who have absolutely no understanding of the products. How things will work out is unknown but plenty of businesses and users I know are more than a little concerned.
Do they have a law banning that sickly sweet smell this **** always stinks of?

Maybe with a rule where they don't get to claim its harmless when I ask someone to not breathe that disgusting **** in my direction as if that's what I care about.
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:04 AM   #2594
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by [Phill] View Post
Do they have a law banning that sickly sweet smell this **** always stinks of?

Maybe with a rule where they don't get to claim its harmless when I ask someone to not breathe that disgusting **** in my direction as if that's what I care about.
No, and no. Although you're really talking about politeness here, and it doesn't need any more regulation than any other form of politeness.
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:10 AM   #2595
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by DiegoArmando View Post
i used to teach english to a big wig in spain's equivalent of our environment and rural affairs ministry or whatever it is now. her words were somethin like "the uk hates new regulation cos they strictly implement it but we dont care about eu regs cos we do what we want anyway"

Spoiler:
Yep, you've got it right there. Used to work for a Dutch company and they have the same complaint.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:07 AM   #2596
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Gin 'n Tonic View Post
Explain to me again how some of the Schengen countries unilaterally re-introduced border controls without getting sued.
I didn't explain that the first time. I confined myself to explaining why someone being denied in work benefits because they were an EU migrant would be able to sue and win.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:25 AM   #2597
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re: UK Politics Thread

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I didn't explain that the first time. I confined myself to explaining why someone being denied in work benefits because they were an EU migrant would be able to sue and win.
So would you care to explain it now, or are you just going to assert your way to victory?
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:21 AM   #2598
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Originally Posted by joejoe1337 View Post
Do you really need a character with charisma to make you vote a certain way? Can't you just read up on the issues and make up your own mind?

Watch one of the newsnights with James O'Brien, he's definitely got Paxo's Rottweiler type charm.
No I don't but it would be preferable if I could hear from someone that I can even half trust. And of course I can and will read for myself

Not one for voting normally, but I think this is important enough to vote this time.

Brit press almost exclusively focusing on the internal tory problems is leaving me all a bit bored wth it already.
 
Old 02-23-2016, 11:26 AM   #2599
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re: UK Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by martymc1 View Post
No I don't but it would be preferable if I could hear from someone that I can even half trust. And of course I can and will read for myself

Not one for voting normally, but I think this is important enough to vote this time.

Brit press almost exclusively focusing on the internal tory problems is leaving me all a bit bored wth it already.
Taking a wild plunge at your political leanings, but Corbyn, Salmond, Sturgeon, Benn?
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:26 AM   #2600
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re: UK Politics Thread

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So would you care to explain it now, or are you just going to assert your way to victory?
lol - why should I be claiming victory in a debate I have never entered?

The in works benefit issue is a complete red line for the rest of the EU who think it is central to the single market. Minor inconvenience caused by delay at border crossings isn't anything like as significant. Obviously if the Danish border, for example, had a line solely for Danish passports, that would be different, but I'm not aware of anything like that happening.
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