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Old 07-12-2017, 03:59 AM   #9126
jeccross
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Like I said I'm done engaging with you, unless you want to circle back to the where I asked for why you misrepresented numbers and where I asked at what point we should look to decrease the debt to GDP ratio.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:25 AM   #9127
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

So no case for austerity then?
This entire sidetrack was based on you demanding people show a case that austerity doesn't work but petulantly disallowing the opinions of people such as Krugman and Blyth and institutions such as the IMF.
Then came this gem

Quote:
I'd suggest you defer your writing to someone else too.

My opinion is my opinion - i'm not taking it from a 3rd party. I got involved in this due to you stating your own opinions (i.e. that the cause is people have no incentive to work) and not providing back up for them, which you still haven't.

My line of thought is:
Structural reform was/is necessary to control our borrowing cost
Regardless of how low yields are we can't run a deficit forever, and we shouldn't have been running one pre financial crisis.
Yes, yields might be low and we can borrow cheaply now, but the risk of growth not materialising from spending is a much bigger risk than some lost growth due to austerity.
If that happens and we then do become a riskier bet for lending too, we're in real trouble.
There's structural reasons why yields are as low as they are, it's not necessarily and indication that our economy is a rock solid bet.

I am not claiming to be an economist though - and I'd be happy to have any fault pointed out in my logic by someone who is (rather than someone who derives their views from one).
with a wonderful disclaimer that you've used to completely avoid justifying your frankly ridiculous case.
I used some graphs rather badly but I'm not an economist and haven't been far off in the other posts I've made.
Our debt to GDP ratio should reduce as a consequence of sound financial policy rather than at some arbitrary point.
Ending austerity (which you can't make any case for - even by linking to economists,videos,books or leaflets handed out by randoms in the street) will aid this.
Maybe now you could address some of the dozens of posts pulling you up on your wildly incorrect reasoning or even just the ones levelled at your "case for austerity" post quoted.

UK austerity is an excuse for ideologically targeted cuts and the biggest transfer of wealth from the many to the few in modern times.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:51 AM   #9128
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by epcfast View Post
I used some graphs rather badly but I'm not an economist and haven't been far off in the other posts I've made.

You should be a politician - you flat out lied in the hope that no one would notice and check out the stats you quoted but didn't post. Why did you need to lie if you have good data backing your point up? Other posts? That was the only time we've discussed actual market evidence.


Our debt to GDP ratio should reduce as a consequence of sound financial policy rather than at some arbitrary point.

Awesomely vague. I wasn't asking for a specific time,
I was asking at what stage in the cycle you would look to reduce this and how.


Ending austerity (which you can't make any case for - even by linking to economists,videos,books or leaflets handed out by randoms in the street) will aid this.

For about the 8th time - the charts you posted make the case. The UK GDP to debt ratio is stabilising, but the US one isn't. Feel free to post some new data that backs up your argument if you can find some.
I was discussing austerity in general, rather than it's specific merits at this point, obviously it should end at some point and I don't think we are necessarily far from that point. My view is spending should increase gradually when it does.
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:57 PM   #9129
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

The chart I posted makes the case for austerity?


You've just surpassed yourself in sheer nonsense posts.

Quote:
For about the 8th time - the charts you posted make the case. The UK GDP to debt ratio is stabilising, but the US one isn't.
Ladies and gentleman - this is the proof that austerity works according to jecross.
Who knew?





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Old 07-12-2017, 02:44 PM   #9130
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeccross View Post
Simplifying and stating things that are incorrect aren't the same.

Banks aren't the main lenders to governments or companies. The subprime mortgage issue did a little more than tipping us over the edge into recession. Just look at corporate debt levels now compared to pre crisis, are we on the edge of recession again?

You are such an epic expert at own goals.

Yes we are technically right on the edge of recession, growth was 0.1% GDP in the last quarter.

Also you might want to look at corporate debt levels falling off a cliff after 2008.

Your comment that they have increased again is irrelevant to what it was that actually caused the economic damage to the real economy.

You are the master of the naked unbacked assertion.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:10 PM   #9131
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Also attempting to nit pick over the shorthand of banks lending money is the most shameful nitpick I have ever seen.

You could go through this forum and practically every thread in it from its inception to today making that nitpick an infinity+1 amount of times as it absolutely accepted universal shorthand for financial institutions.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:19 AM   #9132
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by epcfast View Post
The chart I posted makes the case for austerity?


You've just surpassed yourself in sheer nonsense posts.



Ladies and gentleman - this is the proof that austerity works according to jecross.
Who knew?





The rate of increase of the UK chart is slowing, and the US one isn't.

Learn some maths.

It sure as **** doesn't make the point you were claiming with it, i.e. that the US alternative has been much better and austerity is a disaster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epcfast View Post
Our debt/GDP ratio has risen massively since the start of austerity.
Investment in times of recession historically leads to a decrease in the ratio.
For a post crash case compare and contrast the US and UK's position.

Last edited by jeccross; 07-13-2017 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:26 AM   #9133
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1 View Post
Also attempting to nit pick over the shorthand of banks lending money is the most shameful nitpick I have ever seen.
The key part of your misunderstanding over crowding out was who is controlling the decision, the lender or the borrower, that's pretty fundamental to the concept. Lol at nitpick.

I note you haven't responded to the logical fallacy I pointed out, i.e. that I never claimed that the reason we were borrowing too much was because of the impact on yields.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:44 AM   #9134
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1 View Post
Yes we are technically right on the edge of recession, growth was 0.1% GDP in the last quarter.

Also you might want to look at corporate debt levels falling off a cliff after 2008.
This isn't just about the UK - due to brexit we are a special case currently.

Corporate debt levels are high globally, are we on the brink of another global financial crisis?

I have never seen anything claiming the subprime issue was just what "tipped us over the edge", until you stated it. What's your source for this?
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:30 AM   #9135
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

http://www.itv.com/news/utv/2017-07-...mmended-limit/

Culture!

Fully supported by the bigots of the DUP/UUP.

I expect more crickets from our unionist friends itt.
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:18 AM   #9136
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sh-with-labour

Can't remember Treeza telling us abut this - was abolishing Human Rights in her manifesto?
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:42 AM   #9137
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Just had this pop up on my twitter feed

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Old 07-13-2017, 11:17 AM   #9138
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

What can you do? Gotta screw those poors.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:08 PM   #9139
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeccross View Post
The key part of your misunderstanding over crowding out was who is controlling the decision, the lender or the borrower, that's pretty fundamental to the concept. Lol at nitpick.
I have never seen anyone argue in such bad faith as you, all you do is angle shoot nickpicks, absolutely no effort to engage in point and counter point.

This is a perfect example.

I wonder how it is banks/financial institutions express how much they want to lend to businesses or anyone?????

Obviously through the cost they set on borrowing e.g. the interest rate.

Banks (have to keep saying +financial institutions/investors (its much easier and indeed standard to just say banks, but jeccross gonna jeccross) to avoid another nitpick semantics derail) don't force loans on businesses, of course any decision to borrow is in the hands of the business. If a business wants to borrow it will always be able to find finance at a given %, it can then decided accordingly.


All this is totally unnecessary, the simplification I made far from being incorrect was an absolutely fine and legitimate shorthand summarisation.

Instead of any actual debate we get this absurd retrenchment establishing assumptions you would assume everyone just accepted because you would rather angle shoot nick picks.

Better point out that there will be some circumstances in which businesses might not be able to raise finance, just to avoid nother nitpick from mister litteral.
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Old 07-14-2017, 04:31 AM   #9140
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Do you actually read my posts? I've been constantly nitpicked in this thread, and actually corrected you as it was necessary, your explanation was was so "simplified" it was incomprehensible in my opinion and the "shorthand" made it unclear what the driver of the effect was.

You then decided to nitpick my correction and claimed some nonsense about subprime not being the main cause of the financial crisis which you've decided to ignore in the above, and decided I'd posted a technical response that "failed so massively", despite there being nothing wrong with it.

Perhaps try reading the content of my posts before you decide to disagree with it just because I have a different political outlook to you. Let's move on though for everyone's sakes.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:40 AM   #9141
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

The simplification required no correction at all and was perfectly understandable to anyone remotely interested in actually having a conversation.

Result of crowding out = banks (financial institutions, better keep this up) lend less to businesses.

This is a perfectly fine shorthand for crowding out.

Also I never said sub prime was not the cause of the financial crises, I said sub prime did not cause the damage to the real economy, real economy probably being another common standard helpful short hand phrase you are somehow unaware off. This is of course a perfectly non controversial statement.

Every discussion with you quickly turns into lets move on because you seem incapable of basic communication.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:54 PM   #9142
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Arlene and Ruth's brethren......

Spoiler:

Last edited by martymc1; 07-15-2017 at 06:55 PM. Reason: .
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:12 AM   #9143
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Quote:
People in the UK will have to prove they are 18 before being allowed to access pornography websites from next year, the government is to announce.

Websites will be legally required to install age verification controls by April 2018 as part of a move to make the internet safer for children.

Users may be asked to provide credit card details, as gambling websites do.
o good now i have to open myself up to credit card fraud if i wanna have a wank

is possibly worth mentioning that the minister in charge of wanking-and-other-internet-matters is called matt hancock
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:16 AM   #9144
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Don't users have to provide credit card details for gambling websites so that they can deposit money to gamble, rather than to prove age?
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:38 AM   #9145
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

I was in favour of the slight nudge of making users opt in for porn. This is quite heavy-handed though and seems overly restrictive.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:40 AM   #9146
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Trying to censor the internet or make it hard to access certain stuff seems a bit fruitless. Surely people will just use a vpn.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:42 AM   #9147
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

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Originally Posted by buffyslayer1 View Post
Trying to censor the internet or make it hard to access certain stuff seems a bit fruitless. Surely people will just use a vpn.
I imagine somewhere down the line the thick tories think they can ban vpns along with encryption.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:12 PM   #9148
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

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Originally Posted by jeccross View Post
Don't users have to provide credit card details for gambling websites so that they can deposit money to gamble, rather than to prove age?
Yes this is bollocks - almost no one uses a credit card on gambling sites unless they are a degen because deposits are treated as cash advances and charged at a v high rate immediately.

Also using a CC as ID breaches terms and conditions eg from Barclaycard:

You must only ever reveal the card number to make a transaction, to report the loss or theft of the card, or if we ask you to.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:19 PM   #9149
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

There are more ways than credit card checks to verify age so likely there will multiple options (or it's the lock stock scenario of giving in bank details, getting ripped off then not wanting to follow up a complaint by admitting you looked at fannyfiddlers.com etc).

The fact that my child is clicks away from hardcore porn is frankly scary, this will make that much more difficult. And it will likely reduce casual use by adults, which should lead to a marginally better society overall. Also, if you want it you can run the risk online, or revert to a luddite exchange at a 24 hour petrol station/sweet shop.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:26 PM   #9150
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomj View Post
There are more ways than credit card checks to verify age so likely there will multiple options (or it's the lock stock scenario of giving in bank details, getting ripped off then not wanting to follow up a complaint by admitting you looked at fannyfiddlers.com etc).

The fact that my child is clicks away from hardcore porn is frankly scary, this will make that much more difficult. And it will likely reduce casual use by adults, which should lead to a marginally better society overall. Also, if you want it you can run the risk online, or revert to a luddite exchange at a 24 hour petrol station/sweet shop.
I think your first priority should probably be better parenting,
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